1 00:00:06,416 --> 00:00:08,085 ♪ suspenseful, dramatic music ♪ 2 00:00:08,118 --> 00:00:10,620 ♪ 3 00:00:52,462 --> 00:00:54,043 ♪ intense, intriguing music ♪ 4 00:00:54,043 --> 00:00:55,132 ♪ intense, intriguing music ♪ 5 00:00:55,165 --> 00:00:58,135 [David Fravor] Both airplanes see a disturbance in the water 6 00:00:58,168 --> 00:01:00,043 and a white, 40-foot-long Tic Tac-shaped object. 7 00:01:00,043 --> 00:01:01,838 and a white, 40-foot-long Tic Tac-shaped object. 8 00:01:01,871 --> 00:01:04,274 [Kevin Day] I knew they were something anomalous. 9 00:01:04,307 --> 00:01:05,442 What flies like that? 10 00:01:05,475 --> 00:01:06,043 Nothing I'd ever seen. 11 00:01:06,043 --> 00:01:06,810 Nothing I'd ever seen. 12 00:01:06,843 --> 00:01:08,778 [George Knapp] It's picked up on radar. 13 00:01:08,811 --> 00:01:10,247 It's real. 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,015 [Gary Voorhis] Helicopter landed. 15 00:01:12,048 --> 00:01:13,750 Two people got out. 16 00:01:13,783 --> 00:01:16,119 I was asked to get everything in the computer room 17 00:01:16,152 --> 00:01:17,787 that had anything on it. 18 00:01:17,820 --> 00:01:18,043 All of those disks were taken offship. 19 00:01:18,043 --> 00:01:21,290 All of those disks were taken offship. 20 00:01:22,859 --> 00:01:24,043 [Day] I started having nightmares. 21 00:01:24,043 --> 00:01:24,427 [Day] I started having nightmares. 22 00:01:24,460 --> 00:01:26,429 End-of-the-world type nightmares. 23 00:01:26,462 --> 00:01:28,031 I don't know what it was. 24 00:01:28,064 --> 00:01:30,043 But I know it's real, and I know 25 00:01:30,043 --> 00:01:30,200 But I know it's real, and I know 26 00:01:30,233 --> 00:01:31,634 it's coming our way. 27 00:01:33,002 --> 00:01:34,237 [John Greenewald Jr.] There was a private organization 28 00:01:34,270 --> 00:01:35,505 funded by a billionaire 29 00:01:35,538 --> 00:01:36,043 that aimed to investigate UFOs. 30 00:01:36,043 --> 00:01:37,874 that aimed to investigate UFOs. 31 00:01:37,907 --> 00:01:40,410 [Knapp] Really off the charts strange stuff 32 00:01:40,443 --> 00:01:42,043 starts happening. 33 00:01:42,043 --> 00:01:42,145 starts happening. 34 00:01:42,178 --> 00:01:44,548 And that's when AATIP was born. 35 00:01:44,581 --> 00:01:46,416 [Luis Elizondo] There is very compelling evidence 36 00:01:46,449 --> 00:01:48,043 that we may not be alone. 37 00:01:48,043 --> 00:01:48,218 that we may not be alone. 38 00:01:48,251 --> 00:01:50,520 [Greenewald] There were very little things known 39 00:01:50,553 --> 00:01:52,656 about Mr. Elizondo as a person. 40 00:01:52,689 --> 00:01:54,043 Who was he? What was he really doing? 41 00:01:54,043 --> 00:01:54,925 Who was he? What was he really doing? 42 00:01:54,958 --> 00:01:56,593 And when the Department of Defense 43 00:01:56,626 --> 00:01:58,828 is saying, "Yeah, the guy on the news, 44 00:01:58,861 --> 00:02:00,043 in The New York Times, he did not lead that program," 45 00:02:00,043 --> 00:02:02,032 in The New York Times, he did not lead that program," 46 00:02:02,065 --> 00:02:03,366 what do you do with that? 47 00:02:03,399 --> 00:02:05,234 Who do you believe at that point? 48 00:02:09,505 --> 00:02:11,675 [James Carrion] I'm not a skeptic. 49 00:02:11,708 --> 00:02:12,043 What I am is just... I'm a truth seeker. 50 00:02:12,043 --> 00:02:14,711 What I am is just... I'm a truth seeker. 51 00:02:14,744 --> 00:02:18,043 Those writers were fed that information purposely. 52 00:02:18,043 --> 00:02:18,582 Those writers were fed that information purposely. 53 00:02:18,615 --> 00:02:20,984 They wanted that article to get out, 54 00:02:21,017 --> 00:02:24,043 and they found some believers to release it. 55 00:02:24,043 --> 00:02:24,054 and they found some believers to release it. 56 00:02:24,087 --> 00:02:26,056 Where's the proof? 57 00:02:26,089 --> 00:02:27,824 There is no proof. 58 00:02:27,857 --> 00:02:29,759 ♪ intense, dramatic music ♪ 59 00:02:29,792 --> 00:02:30,043 ♪ 60 00:02:30,043 --> 00:02:32,361 ♪ 61 00:02:45,908 --> 00:02:47,811 ♪ pulsing, intriguing music ♪ 62 00:02:47,844 --> 00:02:48,043 ♪ 63 00:02:48,043 --> 00:02:50,413 ♪ 64 00:02:56,753 --> 00:02:59,823 The belief that UFOs exist, 65 00:02:59,856 --> 00:03:00,043 that they are alien in origin, 66 00:03:00,043 --> 00:03:03,059 that they are alien in origin, 67 00:03:03,092 --> 00:03:04,627 is just a belief. 68 00:03:06,429 --> 00:03:08,698 People take it on faith. 69 00:03:09,432 --> 00:03:11,434 There is no proof 70 00:03:11,467 --> 00:03:12,043 other than stories, 71 00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:13,270 other than stories, 72 00:03:13,303 --> 00:03:14,971 witness accounts, 73 00:03:15,004 --> 00:03:16,639 anecdotes. 74 00:03:21,444 --> 00:03:24,043 Lot of folks that make the rounds 75 00:03:24,043 --> 00:03:24,047 Lot of folks that make the rounds 76 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,615 of the UFO conferences, 77 00:03:25,648 --> 00:03:28,251 they don't have an interest in finding truth. 78 00:03:28,284 --> 00:03:30,043 They're perfectly okay 79 00:03:30,043 --> 00:03:30,320 They're perfectly okay 80 00:03:30,353 --> 00:03:32,088 with this subject being perpetuated 81 00:03:32,121 --> 00:03:33,923 from now till eternity. 82 00:03:36,526 --> 00:03:38,161 They like the fact 83 00:03:38,194 --> 00:03:40,163 that it's conspiracy 84 00:03:40,196 --> 00:03:42,043 that continues and continues and goes on and on. 85 00:03:42,043 --> 00:03:43,466 that continues and continues and goes on and on. 86 00:03:43,499 --> 00:03:45,368 That's never been my goal. My goal is 87 00:03:45,401 --> 00:03:48,043 I want to find out what the truth is in my lifetime. 88 00:03:48,043 --> 00:03:48,838 I want to find out what the truth is in my lifetime. 89 00:03:49,706 --> 00:03:51,974 So, find out that truth no matter what. 90 00:03:53,743 --> 00:03:54,043 My interest in UFOs actually started 91 00:03:54,043 --> 00:03:56,379 My interest in UFOs actually started 92 00:03:56,412 --> 00:03:58,181 when I was 11 years old. 93 00:03:58,214 --> 00:04:00,043 [woman] My God, it's got lights all the way around it. 94 00:04:00,043 --> 00:04:02,252 [woman] My God, it's got lights all the way around it. 95 00:04:02,285 --> 00:04:03,753 [Carrion] My mom used to subscribe 96 00:04:03,786 --> 00:04:05,455 to all the tabloid magazines, 97 00:04:05,488 --> 00:04:06,043 so the National Enquirer, 98 00:04:06,043 --> 00:04:07,290 so the National Enquirer, 99 00:04:07,323 --> 00:04:08,625 for example. 100 00:04:08,658 --> 00:04:09,726 You know, back then, 101 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:11,795 there were alien stories. 102 00:04:11,828 --> 00:04:12,043 So I would clip out all of these different stories 103 00:04:12,043 --> 00:04:15,332 So I would clip out all of these different stories 104 00:04:15,365 --> 00:04:17,467 about UFOs and aliens 105 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:18,043 and collect them. 106 00:04:18,043 --> 00:04:19,169 and collect them. 107 00:04:19,202 --> 00:04:20,804 I've always thought, 108 00:04:20,837 --> 00:04:22,639 "Is there something more to this?" 109 00:04:22,672 --> 00:04:24,006 Are these just stories? 110 00:04:24,841 --> 00:04:27,376 Is there some truth to this? 111 00:04:28,678 --> 00:04:30,043 But then one day, out of the blue, there was 112 00:04:30,043 --> 00:04:31,114 But then one day, out of the blue, there was 113 00:04:31,147 --> 00:04:32,649 some front-page news that happened 114 00:04:32,682 --> 00:04:34,884 where these intelligence analysts 115 00:04:34,917 --> 00:04:36,043 that were from Augsburg, Germany, 116 00:04:36,043 --> 00:04:37,287 that were from Augsburg, Germany, 117 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,322 they went AWOL from their post. 118 00:04:39,355 --> 00:04:41,057 ♪ dramatic, ominous music ♪ 119 00:04:41,090 --> 00:04:42,043 ♪ 120 00:04:42,043 --> 00:04:43,693 ♪ 121 00:04:52,602 --> 00:04:54,043 What ended up happening was 122 00:04:54,043 --> 00:04:55,271 What ended up happening was 123 00:04:55,304 --> 00:04:56,939 they went to Florida... 124 00:04:59,909 --> 00:05:00,043 ...because they wanted to attend a MUFON conference. 125 00:05:00,043 --> 00:05:02,846 ...because they wanted to attend a MUFON conference. 126 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:04,814 That's where I first heard the word "MUFON." 127 00:05:04,847 --> 00:05:06,043 ♪ pulsing, dramatic music ♪ 128 00:05:06,043 --> 00:05:06,516 ♪ pulsing, dramatic music ♪ 129 00:05:06,549 --> 00:05:08,651 "MUFON" stands for 130 00:05:08,684 --> 00:05:10,086 the Mutual UFO Network. 131 00:05:11,521 --> 00:05:12,043 [Ralph Blumenthal] There are people in the private sector 132 00:05:12,043 --> 00:05:14,190 [Ralph Blumenthal] There are people in the private sector 133 00:05:14,223 --> 00:05:16,493 who actually attract UFOs, 134 00:05:16,526 --> 00:05:18,027 and there are countless sightings. 135 00:05:18,060 --> 00:05:20,496 [man] Look at that. It's going behi... 136 00:05:21,731 --> 00:05:24,043 Yes. What the hell is that? 137 00:05:24,043 --> 00:05:24,300 Yes. What the hell is that? 138 00:05:24,333 --> 00:05:26,502 Yo, look how slow it's moving. 139 00:05:30,239 --> 00:05:31,841 I have never seen a UFO, 140 00:05:31,874 --> 00:05:35,378 and yet there are hundreds of thousands of reports. 141 00:05:35,411 --> 00:05:36,043 And there are organizations that track these reports. 142 00:05:36,043 --> 00:05:38,281 And there are organizations that track these reports. 143 00:05:38,314 --> 00:05:42,043 One of them is the Mutual UFO Network, MUFON. 144 00:05:42,043 --> 00:05:42,452 One of them is the Mutual UFO Network, MUFON. 145 00:05:42,485 --> 00:05:44,020 [Carrion] Their mission statement 146 00:05:44,053 --> 00:05:46,790 is the scientific investigation of UFOs 147 00:05:46,823 --> 00:05:48,043 for the benefit of humanity. 148 00:05:48,043 --> 00:05:49,258 for the benefit of humanity. 149 00:05:50,460 --> 00:05:53,930 [Knapp] Independent UFO research is fraught with peril. 150 00:05:53,963 --> 00:05:54,043 It's a swamp. It's a mess. 151 00:05:54,043 --> 00:05:55,632 It's a swamp. It's a mess. 152 00:05:55,665 --> 00:05:58,468 There's so much information in there that is unreliable, 153 00:05:58,501 --> 00:06:00,043 so many people who make claims that can't be verified. 154 00:06:00,043 --> 00:06:01,170 so many people who make claims that can't be verified. 155 00:06:02,205 --> 00:06:04,207 [man] Whatever it was 156 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:05,442 moved up and to the left. 157 00:06:05,475 --> 00:06:06,043 Uh, it hovered there for... 158 00:06:06,043 --> 00:06:07,677 Uh, it hovered there for... 159 00:06:07,710 --> 00:06:09,412 probably about 60 seconds. 160 00:06:10,546 --> 00:06:12,043 [woman] There was no sound, that's the funny thing. 161 00:06:12,043 --> 00:06:12,782 [woman] There was no sound, that's the funny thing. 162 00:06:12,815 --> 00:06:14,584 -Or-or the lights. -Yeah. 163 00:06:14,617 --> 00:06:15,618 -You know, the usual lights. -No sound, no blinking lights. 164 00:06:16,452 --> 00:06:18,043 [Carrion] When I became the international director 165 00:06:18,043 --> 00:06:18,555 [Carrion] When I became the international director 166 00:06:18,588 --> 00:06:20,890 in 2006, 167 00:06:20,923 --> 00:06:22,959 I really had the sincere desire 168 00:06:22,992 --> 00:06:24,043 to make MUFON a more science-based organization. 169 00:06:24,043 --> 00:06:27,230 to make MUFON a more science-based organization. 170 00:06:27,263 --> 00:06:29,732 I rewrote their investigative manual. 171 00:06:29,765 --> 00:06:30,043 I formed their rapid-response team. 172 00:06:30,043 --> 00:06:33,903 I formed their rapid-response team. 173 00:06:33,936 --> 00:06:36,043 I really tried to instill 174 00:06:36,043 --> 00:06:36,773 I really tried to instill 175 00:06:36,806 --> 00:06:38,808 more ethical behavior 176 00:06:38,841 --> 00:06:40,910 in terms of witness interviewing. 177 00:06:40,943 --> 00:06:42,043 [man] There's so many theories floating around. 178 00:06:42,043 --> 00:06:43,446 [man] There's so many theories floating around. 179 00:06:43,479 --> 00:06:44,647 No one has an answer. 180 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,683 A lot of it is just speculation. 181 00:06:46,716 --> 00:06:48,043 And just get good data. 182 00:06:48,043 --> 00:06:48,217 And just get good data. 183 00:06:48,851 --> 00:06:51,955 [man] This is really strange. 184 00:06:51,988 --> 00:06:54,043 Very strange object in the sky here. 185 00:06:54,043 --> 00:06:55,124 Very strange object in the sky here. 186 00:06:55,157 --> 00:06:56,960 A yellow center. 187 00:06:56,993 --> 00:06:59,362 Looks like it has... it's moving away from me a little now. 188 00:06:59,395 --> 00:07:00,043 [Leslie Kean] For years, when a case would happen, 189 00:07:00,043 --> 00:07:02,131 [Leslie Kean] For years, when a case would happen, 190 00:07:02,164 --> 00:07:04,534 witnesses would call a local MUFON group 191 00:07:04,567 --> 00:07:06,001 and report it. 192 00:07:06,869 --> 00:07:09,405 But when you look at the investigations, 193 00:07:09,438 --> 00:07:12,043 you'd realize that civilian UFO research organization 194 00:07:12,043 --> 00:07:13,743 you'd realize that civilian UFO research organization 195 00:07:13,776 --> 00:07:15,411 could only do so much. 196 00:07:15,444 --> 00:07:17,947 That's why I've always advocated 197 00:07:17,980 --> 00:07:18,043 that we need a government agency 198 00:07:18,043 --> 00:07:19,749 that we need a government agency 199 00:07:19,782 --> 00:07:21,851 in order to do proper investigations. 200 00:07:21,884 --> 00:07:23,586 Little did I know 201 00:07:23,619 --> 00:07:24,043 that there was this project going on 202 00:07:24,043 --> 00:07:24,687 that there was this project going on 203 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:25,821 in the Defense Department. 204 00:07:26,689 --> 00:07:30,043 The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. 205 00:07:30,043 --> 00:07:30,927 The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. 206 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,363 The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification... 207 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:34,998 Identification Program. 208 00:07:35,031 --> 00:07:36,043 A recent report by The New York Times 209 00:07:36,043 --> 00:07:36,866 A recent report by The New York Times 210 00:07:36,899 --> 00:07:39,269 unveiled the existence of a real-life X-Files... 211 00:07:39,302 --> 00:07:40,904 [reporter] Tens of millions of dollars for the project 212 00:07:40,937 --> 00:07:42,043 were pushed through 213 00:07:42,043 --> 00:07:42,405 were pushed through 214 00:07:42,438 --> 00:07:44,073 by former Senate majority leader Harry Reid. 215 00:07:44,106 --> 00:07:46,543 A lot of the money went to Bigelow Aerospace 216 00:07:46,576 --> 00:07:48,043 run by a longtime friend of Reid's, Robert Bigelow, 217 00:07:48,043 --> 00:07:49,846 run by a longtime friend of Reid's, Robert Bigelow, 218 00:07:49,879 --> 00:07:52,214 a big believer in UFOs. 219 00:07:58,854 --> 00:08:00,043 I wasn't surprised. 220 00:08:00,043 --> 00:08:00,656 I wasn't surprised. 221 00:08:01,891 --> 00:08:04,260 No, actually, at the time, it was sort of a, 222 00:08:04,293 --> 00:08:06,043 "Aha. That's what that was all about." 223 00:08:06,043 --> 00:08:07,296 "Aha. That's what that was all about." 224 00:08:10,066 --> 00:08:12,043 Robert Bigelow approached MUFON in late 2008. 225 00:08:12,043 --> 00:08:13,903 Robert Bigelow approached MUFON in late 2008. 226 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:17,206 Bob Bigelow is an interesting person. 227 00:08:17,239 --> 00:08:18,043 I've always sort of thought of him 228 00:08:18,043 --> 00:08:18,875 I've always sort of thought of him 229 00:08:18,908 --> 00:08:20,977 as sort of the modern-day Howard Hughes. 230 00:08:21,010 --> 00:08:23,880 -[applause] -A billionaire-- lots of money-- 231 00:08:23,913 --> 00:08:24,043 who has a vested interest in the space program 232 00:08:24,043 --> 00:08:27,817 who has a vested interest in the space program 233 00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:30,043 and seems to have, also, 234 00:08:30,043 --> 00:08:30,153 and seems to have, also, 235 00:08:30,186 --> 00:08:32,354 this vested interest in the UFO field. 236 00:08:35,625 --> 00:08:36,043 Correct. 237 00:08:36,043 --> 00:08:36,926 Correct. 238 00:08:39,095 --> 00:08:40,863 In 2008, 239 00:08:40,896 --> 00:08:42,043 when I was international director, 240 00:08:42,043 --> 00:08:43,099 when I was international director, 241 00:08:43,132 --> 00:08:45,034 Robert Bigelow asked MUFON 242 00:08:45,067 --> 00:08:47,703 to submit some scientific papers. 243 00:08:49,505 --> 00:08:51,708 Scientific papers that would project 244 00:08:51,741 --> 00:08:54,043 futuristic technology 245 00:08:54,043 --> 00:08:54,110 futuristic technology 246 00:08:54,143 --> 00:08:56,379 that we could glean from UFOs. 247 00:08:56,412 --> 00:08:59,415 You know, some sort of far-out advanced technologies. 248 00:08:59,448 --> 00:09:00,043 [Knapp] $22 million dollars is given to BAASS, 249 00:09:00,043 --> 00:09:02,885 [Knapp] $22 million dollars is given to BAASS, 250 00:09:02,918 --> 00:09:05,054 an organization created by Robert Bigelow. 251 00:09:05,087 --> 00:09:06,043 And he advertises online. 252 00:09:06,043 --> 00:09:08,324 And he advertises online. 253 00:09:08,357 --> 00:09:09,926 He recruits scientists, 254 00:09:09,959 --> 00:09:12,043 private investigators, former cop and military folks. 255 00:09:12,043 --> 00:09:12,228 private investigators, former cop and military folks. 256 00:09:12,261 --> 00:09:13,396 People with experience 257 00:09:13,429 --> 00:09:15,198 investigating different phenomena, 258 00:09:15,231 --> 00:09:16,532 criminal activity. 259 00:09:16,565 --> 00:09:18,043 People who are good judges of character. 260 00:09:18,043 --> 00:09:18,267 People who are good judges of character. 261 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,203 They put together a gigantic pile of information. 262 00:09:22,071 --> 00:09:23,773 [Greenewald] When you look at the fact 263 00:09:23,806 --> 00:09:24,043 that $22 million dollars went over to the private sector, 264 00:09:24,043 --> 00:09:26,376 that $22 million dollars went over to the private sector, 265 00:09:26,409 --> 00:09:28,645 a subsidiary of Bigelow Aerospace, 266 00:09:28,678 --> 00:09:30,043 and that they produced 38 reports, 267 00:09:30,043 --> 00:09:31,714 and that they produced 38 reports, 268 00:09:31,747 --> 00:09:33,216 you got to ask, "That's what... 269 00:09:33,249 --> 00:09:35,417 Really what $22 million dollars bought?" 270 00:09:36,786 --> 00:09:38,954 Where did that money go? 271 00:09:40,122 --> 00:09:42,043 [Carrion] Well, we submitted some papers in 2008. 272 00:09:42,043 --> 00:09:43,593 [Carrion] Well, we submitted some papers in 2008. 273 00:09:43,626 --> 00:09:45,294 He allegedly liked them. 274 00:09:45,327 --> 00:09:46,996 And then in 2009, 275 00:09:47,029 --> 00:09:48,043 Bigelow invited us back to form 276 00:09:48,043 --> 00:09:50,066 Bigelow invited us back to form 277 00:09:50,099 --> 00:09:52,468 a relationship where he wanted to use MUFON 278 00:09:52,501 --> 00:09:54,043 as the investigative arm 279 00:09:54,043 --> 00:09:54,303 as the investigative arm 280 00:09:54,336 --> 00:09:56,939 for his new company called BAASS. 281 00:09:56,972 --> 00:09:58,975 ♪ intense, pulsing music ♪ 282 00:09:59,008 --> 00:10:00,043 January of 2009, 283 00:10:00,043 --> 00:10:01,611 January of 2009, 284 00:10:01,644 --> 00:10:03,346 I went to Las Vegas 285 00:10:03,379 --> 00:10:05,615 along with a couple of other MUFON board members 286 00:10:05,648 --> 00:10:06,043 to Bigelow's headquarters. 287 00:10:06,043 --> 00:10:07,517 to Bigelow's headquarters. 288 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:10,653 And we sat down with, uh, Hal Puthoff, 289 00:10:10,686 --> 00:10:12,043 Jacques Vallée, 290 00:10:12,043 --> 00:10:12,455 Jacques Vallée, 291 00:10:12,488 --> 00:10:15,124 Robert Bigelow 292 00:10:15,157 --> 00:10:17,460 and a couple other folks 293 00:10:17,493 --> 00:10:18,043 I did not recognize and were not introduced. 294 00:10:18,043 --> 00:10:20,162 I did not recognize and were not introduced. 295 00:10:22,732 --> 00:10:24,043 And Harold Puthoff was a physicist 296 00:10:24,043 --> 00:10:24,534 And Harold Puthoff was a physicist 297 00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:26,202 who had done work 298 00:10:26,235 --> 00:10:30,043 in this psychological mind expansion experiment, 299 00:10:30,043 --> 00:10:30,339 in this psychological mind expansion experiment, 300 00:10:30,372 --> 00:10:33,276 the PSYOPs operation the CIA funded for many years 301 00:10:33,309 --> 00:10:35,011 and its intelligence gathering. 302 00:10:35,044 --> 00:10:36,043 [Diana Walsh Pasulka] Jacques Vallée is 303 00:10:36,043 --> 00:10:37,547 [Diana Walsh Pasulka] Jacques Vallée is 304 00:10:37,580 --> 00:10:41,084 one of the first big what we call UFO researchers. 305 00:10:41,117 --> 00:10:42,043 He's a computer scientist, 306 00:10:42,043 --> 00:10:43,419 He's a computer scientist, 307 00:10:43,452 --> 00:10:45,688 and he's also an astronomer, and he helped 308 00:10:45,721 --> 00:10:48,043 map the first mapping of Mars. 309 00:10:48,043 --> 00:10:48,257 map the first mapping of Mars. 310 00:10:49,091 --> 00:10:52,061 [Knapp] Those are the same people that were part of NIDS. 311 00:10:53,896 --> 00:10:54,043 [Carrion] We sat down with Bigelow, 312 00:10:54,043 --> 00:10:55,798 [Carrion] We sat down with Bigelow, 313 00:10:55,831 --> 00:10:59,802 and we talked about how we could formalize that relationship. 314 00:10:59,835 --> 00:11:00,043 I had a formal presentation 315 00:11:00,043 --> 00:11:01,337 I had a formal presentation 316 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:04,006 where I described how MUFON could act 317 00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:06,008 as sort of the rapid-response force 318 00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:06,043 for getting quickly 319 00:11:06,043 --> 00:11:07,610 for getting quickly 320 00:11:07,643 --> 00:11:11,781 to what could be described as a major UFO event, 321 00:11:11,814 --> 00:11:12,043 how we could gather evidence. 322 00:11:12,043 --> 00:11:13,048 how we could gather evidence. 323 00:11:15,084 --> 00:11:17,854 And then feed that back to BAASS. 324 00:11:17,887 --> 00:11:18,043 Bigelow was offering MUFON something along the lines 325 00:11:18,043 --> 00:11:21,691 Bigelow was offering MUFON something along the lines 326 00:11:21,724 --> 00:11:23,459 of $50,000 per month 327 00:11:23,492 --> 00:11:24,043 over a 12-year contract 328 00:11:24,043 --> 00:11:25,194 over a 12-year contract 329 00:11:25,227 --> 00:11:28,097 with, uh, future expansion, 330 00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:30,043 and he said that it was not his money. 331 00:11:30,043 --> 00:11:30,366 and he said that it was not his money. 332 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,401 He said, uh, "This is coming from a sponsor." 333 00:11:33,235 --> 00:11:35,138 So I asked him point-blank, 334 00:11:35,171 --> 00:11:36,043 "Who is your sponsor?" 335 00:11:36,043 --> 00:11:36,506 "Who is your sponsor?" 336 00:11:36,539 --> 00:11:39,442 And he said he couldn't reveal that. 337 00:11:39,475 --> 00:11:40,843 That bothered me. 338 00:11:41,677 --> 00:11:42,043 So then I asked Bigelow again, point-blank, 339 00:11:42,043 --> 00:11:45,515 So then I asked Bigelow again, point-blank, 340 00:11:45,548 --> 00:11:48,043 "Is your sponsor a government organization? 341 00:11:48,043 --> 00:11:49,018 "Is your sponsor a government organization? 342 00:11:49,051 --> 00:11:50,787 Or is it an intelligence agency?" 343 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:52,421 ♪ exciting music ♪ 344 00:11:52,454 --> 00:11:54,043 ♪ 345 00:11:54,043 --> 00:11:55,557 ♪ 346 00:12:00,696 --> 00:12:02,431 He point-blank told me no. 347 00:12:04,233 --> 00:12:06,043 Well, fast-forward to 2017. We find out 348 00:12:06,043 --> 00:12:07,436 Well, fast-forward to 2017. We find out 349 00:12:07,469 --> 00:12:09,972 that it's the DIA that was behind this. 350 00:12:10,005 --> 00:12:12,043 ♪ dramatic, intriguing music ♪ 351 00:12:12,043 --> 00:12:12,307 ♪ dramatic, intriguing music ♪ 352 00:12:14,276 --> 00:12:16,111 The Defense Intelligence Agency. 353 00:12:23,352 --> 00:12:24,043 [Carrion] Honestly, I don't think it makes 354 00:12:24,043 --> 00:12:24,987 [Carrion] Honestly, I don't think it makes 355 00:12:25,020 --> 00:12:26,522 a lot of sense that the government 356 00:12:26,555 --> 00:12:29,525 would have an interest in UFO groups 357 00:12:29,558 --> 00:12:30,043 like MUFON other than for, let's say, deception reasons, 358 00:12:30,043 --> 00:12:33,663 like MUFON other than for, let's say, deception reasons, 359 00:12:33,696 --> 00:12:35,198 psychological reasons, 360 00:12:35,231 --> 00:12:36,043 maybe counterintelligence reasons 361 00:12:36,043 --> 00:12:37,466 maybe counterintelligence reasons 362 00:12:37,499 --> 00:12:39,802 for the same reason that, uh, you know, 363 00:12:39,835 --> 00:12:42,043 homicide detectives don't want amateur sleuths 364 00:12:42,043 --> 00:12:43,306 homicide detectives don't want amateur sleuths 365 00:12:43,339 --> 00:12:46,275 around homicide, uh, scenes. 366 00:12:54,283 --> 00:12:56,352 The government would do it for just one reason, 367 00:12:56,385 --> 00:12:58,687 which is to manage that organization. 368 00:13:00,022 --> 00:13:00,043 The common thread that you can find in this story 369 00:13:00,043 --> 00:13:03,125 The common thread that you can find in this story 370 00:13:03,158 --> 00:13:05,528 from the very early days of UFOs 371 00:13:05,561 --> 00:13:06,043 starting in 1946 all the way till now... 372 00:13:06,043 --> 00:13:08,164 starting in 1946 all the way till now... 373 00:13:08,197 --> 00:13:09,832 There's one common thread, 374 00:13:09,865 --> 00:13:11,801 and that's human deception. 375 00:13:11,834 --> 00:13:12,043 ♪ lively, upbeat music ♪ 376 00:13:12,043 --> 00:13:14,337 ♪ lively, upbeat music ♪ 377 00:13:14,370 --> 00:13:17,539 ♪ 378 00:13:21,377 --> 00:13:23,980 [newsman] For 22 years, the government officially 379 00:13:24,013 --> 00:13:24,043 investigated UFO sightings. 380 00:13:24,043 --> 00:13:25,481 investigated UFO sightings. 381 00:13:25,514 --> 00:13:28,417 Those records, now declassified, 382 00:13:28,450 --> 00:13:30,043 are kept here, in the National Archives. 383 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:30,653 are kept here, in the National Archives. 384 00:13:30,686 --> 00:13:33,689 The files include case records, pictures-- like this one, 385 00:13:33,722 --> 00:13:35,858 which the Air Force labeled a hoax-- 386 00:13:35,891 --> 00:13:36,043 and artifacts. 387 00:13:36,043 --> 00:13:37,894 and artifacts. 388 00:13:37,927 --> 00:13:40,496 This chrome-plated cylinder, which the Air Force concluded 389 00:13:40,529 --> 00:13:42,043 was probably part of an auto ornament, 390 00:13:42,043 --> 00:13:42,365 was probably part of an auto ornament, 391 00:13:42,398 --> 00:13:44,367 was sent to J. Edgar Hoover 392 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,202 by a man in Washakie, Wyoming, 393 00:13:46,235 --> 00:13:48,043 who wanted to know if it was a threat to the national security. 394 00:13:48,043 --> 00:13:49,705 who wanted to know if it was a threat to the national security. 395 00:13:49,738 --> 00:13:51,941 [Greenewald] When I first started looking into UFOs, 396 00:13:51,974 --> 00:13:54,043 I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. 397 00:13:54,043 --> 00:13:55,211 I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. 398 00:13:55,244 --> 00:13:56,712 I went on the Internet, and, you know, 399 00:13:56,745 --> 00:13:57,880 being a 15-year-old kid, 400 00:13:57,913 --> 00:14:00,043 thinking, "Hey, if anybody's gonna tell me 401 00:14:00,043 --> 00:14:00,116 thinking, "Hey, if anybody's gonna tell me 402 00:14:00,149 --> 00:14:03,685 the truth about UFOs, it's the United States government." 403 00:14:06,021 --> 00:14:06,043 And honestly, it's probably 404 00:14:06,043 --> 00:14:07,857 And honestly, it's probably 405 00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:10,326 the biggest mistake of my life. 406 00:14:10,359 --> 00:14:12,043 ♪ slow, intriguing music ♪ 407 00:14:12,043 --> 00:14:12,328 ♪ slow, intriguing music ♪ 408 00:14:12,361 --> 00:14:15,530 ♪ 409 00:14:18,033 --> 00:14:18,043 I grew up fascinated by magic. 410 00:14:18,043 --> 00:14:21,570 I grew up fascinated by magic. 411 00:14:25,607 --> 00:14:27,944 And in my mind, the greatest trick of a magician 412 00:14:27,977 --> 00:14:30,043 is to make the audience look at your left hand 413 00:14:30,043 --> 00:14:30,913 is to make the audience look at your left hand 414 00:14:30,946 --> 00:14:34,016 so they don't see what's going on in your right. 415 00:14:34,917 --> 00:14:36,043 -[gasping] -[applause] 416 00:14:36,043 --> 00:14:36,419 -[gasping] -[applause] 417 00:14:36,452 --> 00:14:38,654 And I never knew it at the time, 418 00:14:38,687 --> 00:14:41,090 that it would play a role later in my life 419 00:14:41,123 --> 00:14:42,043 researching the United States government connection 420 00:14:42,043 --> 00:14:44,126 researching the United States government connection 421 00:14:44,159 --> 00:14:46,262 to what UFOs were. 422 00:14:46,295 --> 00:14:48,043 And there's a really, really strong connection, 423 00:14:48,043 --> 00:14:49,065 And there's a really, really strong connection, 424 00:14:49,098 --> 00:14:51,834 in my mind, between being a magician 425 00:14:51,867 --> 00:14:54,043 and handling the secrets of the U.S. government. 426 00:14:54,043 --> 00:14:54,670 and handling the secrets of the U.S. government. 427 00:14:57,706 --> 00:15:00,043 The government doesn't want you to know everything, 428 00:15:00,043 --> 00:15:00,676 The government doesn't want you to know everything, 429 00:15:00,709 --> 00:15:04,313 so they will create the illusion of something. 430 00:15:04,346 --> 00:15:05,648 That's their left hand, 431 00:15:05,681 --> 00:15:06,043 because they don't want you to know 432 00:15:06,043 --> 00:15:07,383 because they don't want you to know 433 00:15:07,416 --> 00:15:09,918 what's going on in their right. 434 00:15:10,753 --> 00:15:12,043 [Carrion] My belief through my research 435 00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:13,255 [Carrion] My belief through my research 436 00:15:13,288 --> 00:15:15,891 is that the UFO subject 437 00:15:15,924 --> 00:15:18,043 was a deception effort 438 00:15:18,043 --> 00:15:18,227 was a deception effort 439 00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:20,463 created by intelligence agencies 440 00:15:20,496 --> 00:15:24,043 to kick off the Cold War. 441 00:15:24,043 --> 00:15:24,066 to kick off the Cold War. 442 00:15:24,099 --> 00:15:25,835 They created the UFO myth 443 00:15:25,868 --> 00:15:27,536 for disinformation purposes. 444 00:15:31,206 --> 00:15:35,111 The origin of all this would be, actually, Roswell. 445 00:15:35,144 --> 00:15:36,043 Classic deception. 446 00:15:36,043 --> 00:15:37,346 Classic deception. 447 00:15:38,881 --> 00:15:41,517 If you look at the summer of '47, 448 00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:42,043 Kenneth Arnold had his June 24 sighting. 449 00:15:42,043 --> 00:15:43,652 Kenneth Arnold had his June 24 sighting. 450 00:15:43,685 --> 00:15:45,888 You had lots of sightings after that 451 00:15:45,921 --> 00:15:47,623 that most people discounted 452 00:15:47,656 --> 00:15:48,043 as, "This housewife saw this" 453 00:15:48,043 --> 00:15:50,192 as, "This housewife saw this" 454 00:15:50,225 --> 00:15:51,694 and, "This farmer saw that." 455 00:15:51,727 --> 00:15:54,043 But they found this material on their property. 456 00:15:54,043 --> 00:15:55,197 But they found this material on their property. 457 00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:56,999 ♪ tense, dramatic music ♪ 458 00:15:57,032 --> 00:15:59,235 ♪ 459 00:15:59,268 --> 00:16:00,043 As I come out of the canyon there, 460 00:16:00,043 --> 00:16:01,270 As I come out of the canyon there, 461 00:16:01,303 --> 00:16:03,105 I notice to the left of me 462 00:16:03,138 --> 00:16:06,043 a chain, which looked to me like the tail of a Chinese kite, 463 00:16:06,043 --> 00:16:06,475 a chain, which looked to me like the tail of a Chinese kite, 464 00:16:06,508 --> 00:16:08,444 going at a terrific speed, 465 00:16:08,477 --> 00:16:10,146 flipped and flashed in the sun, 466 00:16:10,179 --> 00:16:12,043 just like a mirror. 467 00:16:12,043 --> 00:16:12,782 just like a mirror. 468 00:16:12,815 --> 00:16:15,484 [Kate Dorsch] Kenneth Arnold's sighting takes place 469 00:16:15,517 --> 00:16:18,043 at a very interesting nexus. 470 00:16:18,043 --> 00:16:19,388 at a very interesting nexus. 471 00:16:20,255 --> 00:16:22,024 We are coming out of World War II, 472 00:16:22,057 --> 00:16:24,043 in this postwar moment where... 473 00:16:24,043 --> 00:16:24,326 in this postwar moment where... 474 00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:25,961 we have the atomic bomb. 475 00:16:25,994 --> 00:16:28,697 We think that the Soviets are a decade or more away 476 00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:29,498 from having the bomb. 477 00:16:29,531 --> 00:16:30,043 ♪ 478 00:16:30,043 --> 00:16:31,801 ♪ 479 00:16:31,834 --> 00:16:33,836 But our relationship with the Soviet Union is 480 00:16:33,869 --> 00:16:35,704 fast deteriorating. 481 00:16:36,405 --> 00:16:38,707 There is a heightened cultural tension 482 00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:41,077 during this time, where any moment 483 00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:42,043 can be your last. 484 00:16:42,043 --> 00:16:42,611 can be your last. 485 00:16:42,644 --> 00:16:44,880 ♪ 486 00:16:46,281 --> 00:16:48,043 That these nuclear warheads can be dropped on us, unknowing, 487 00:16:48,043 --> 00:16:50,419 That these nuclear warheads can be dropped on us, unknowing, 488 00:16:50,452 --> 00:16:53,221 unbidden, with no preparation and no warning. 489 00:16:56,458 --> 00:17:00,043 So people are living in this heightened state of awareness 490 00:17:00,043 --> 00:17:00,096 So people are living in this heightened state of awareness 491 00:17:00,129 --> 00:17:03,132 and intensity and anxiety 492 00:17:03,165 --> 00:17:05,201 on an existential level. 493 00:17:05,234 --> 00:17:06,043 And then enter the UFO. 494 00:17:06,043 --> 00:17:06,802 And then enter the UFO. 495 00:17:06,835 --> 00:17:08,637 [shutter clicking] 496 00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:11,106 ♪ 497 00:17:16,078 --> 00:17:18,043 [John Hayes] I don't know what they saw in '47, 498 00:17:18,043 --> 00:17:18,781 [John Hayes] I don't know what they saw in '47, 499 00:17:18,814 --> 00:17:21,617 but I'm quite sure it probably was Project Mogul. 500 00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:24,043 But I think if you find that people talk about things 501 00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:25,254 But I think if you find that people talk about things 502 00:17:25,287 --> 00:17:27,089 over a period of time, they begin to lose 503 00:17:27,122 --> 00:17:28,591 exactly when the date was. 504 00:17:28,624 --> 00:17:30,043 And there were lots of dummies dropped; 505 00:17:30,043 --> 00:17:30,759 And there were lots of dummies dropped; 506 00:17:30,792 --> 00:17:33,529 there were 20... about 2,500 balloons launched 507 00:17:33,562 --> 00:17:35,297 during this 30-year period 508 00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:36,043 in New Mexico alone. 509 00:17:36,043 --> 00:17:37,199 in New Mexico alone. 510 00:17:37,232 --> 00:17:39,267 [insects trilling] 511 00:17:40,135 --> 00:17:42,043 [Dorsch] The Roswell story is actually one of my favorites. 512 00:17:42,043 --> 00:17:43,439 [Dorsch] The Roswell story is actually one of my favorites. 513 00:17:43,472 --> 00:17:46,442 It might still be largely apocryphal. 514 00:17:46,475 --> 00:17:48,043 The story is the United States Air Force 515 00:17:48,043 --> 00:17:48,611 The story is the United States Air Force 516 00:17:48,644 --> 00:17:50,079 and the military was testing 517 00:17:50,112 --> 00:17:52,281 these very, very large surveillance balloons 518 00:17:52,314 --> 00:17:54,043 called Skyhook balloons, 519 00:17:54,043 --> 00:17:54,116 called Skyhook balloons, 520 00:17:54,149 --> 00:17:56,485 that were highly classified, top secret, 521 00:17:56,518 --> 00:17:58,454 intending to fly them over the Soviet Union 522 00:17:58,487 --> 00:18:00,043 at very, very high altitudes. 523 00:18:00,043 --> 00:18:00,589 at very, very high altitudes. 524 00:18:00,622 --> 00:18:02,892 ♪ soft, mysterious music ♪ 525 00:18:02,925 --> 00:18:05,461 And... 526 00:18:05,494 --> 00:18:06,043 one of these things came down in Roswell. 527 00:18:06,043 --> 00:18:08,964 one of these things came down in Roswell. 528 00:18:08,997 --> 00:18:12,043 And some low-level Air Force kid went out to see 529 00:18:12,043 --> 00:18:13,135 And some low-level Air Force kid went out to see 530 00:18:13,168 --> 00:18:15,037 what the farmer had reported 531 00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:17,672 and said, "Oh, the-- It's just a balloon." 532 00:18:19,007 --> 00:18:21,844 [Carrion] The story was that they found this balloon. 533 00:18:21,877 --> 00:18:22,844 No big deal. 534 00:18:23,779 --> 00:18:24,043 [Dorsch] The higher-ups at the Air Force found out 535 00:18:24,043 --> 00:18:25,414 [Dorsch] The higher-ups at the Air Force found out 536 00:18:25,447 --> 00:18:26,849 that this was being shared, 537 00:18:26,882 --> 00:18:29,118 that the story about the balloon was out, 538 00:18:29,151 --> 00:18:30,043 that we were testing these high-altitude balloons, 539 00:18:30,043 --> 00:18:31,020 that we were testing these high-altitude balloons, 540 00:18:31,053 --> 00:18:33,122 and came back and said, "It was not a balloon. 541 00:18:33,155 --> 00:18:35,858 We don't know what it was, but it was absolutely not 542 00:18:35,891 --> 00:18:36,043 a high-altitude balloon. 543 00:18:36,043 --> 00:18:37,092 a high-altitude balloon. 544 00:18:37,125 --> 00:18:39,161 So whatever you've heard is not at all true." 545 00:18:39,194 --> 00:18:40,829 Because they did not want this in the news. 546 00:18:40,862 --> 00:18:42,043 They did not want the Russians to know 547 00:18:42,043 --> 00:18:42,831 They did not want the Russians to know 548 00:18:42,864 --> 00:18:45,000 that we were testing these very high-altitude balloons 549 00:18:45,033 --> 00:18:46,968 and were or were not successful. 550 00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:48,043 [Carrion] What really cemented the subject of UFOs 551 00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:50,706 [Carrion] What really cemented the subject of UFOs 552 00:18:50,739 --> 00:18:53,842 in people's minds in 1947 553 00:18:53,875 --> 00:18:54,043 was when 554 00:18:54,043 --> 00:18:55,511 was when 555 00:18:55,544 --> 00:18:57,913 the 509th Bomber Group, 556 00:18:57,946 --> 00:19:00,043 which was the only atomic unit in the world at the time, 557 00:19:00,043 --> 00:19:01,750 which was the only atomic unit in the world at the time, 558 00:19:01,783 --> 00:19:05,087 sent out that press release and said, "We captured a UFO." 559 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,043 ♪ 560 00:19:06,043 --> 00:19:07,423 ♪ 561 00:19:07,456 --> 00:19:09,658 They put an official stamp of reality 562 00:19:09,691 --> 00:19:12,043 on the UFO subject at that time. 563 00:19:12,043 --> 00:19:12,694 on the UFO subject at that time. 564 00:19:15,564 --> 00:19:18,043 [Dorsch] In the absence of other explanation, 565 00:19:18,043 --> 00:19:18,167 [Dorsch] In the absence of other explanation, 566 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,769 the extraterrestrial thing 567 00:19:20,802 --> 00:19:22,337 gains traction. 568 00:19:23,171 --> 00:19:24,043 You start to see a narrative about aliens. 569 00:19:24,043 --> 00:19:26,842 You start to see a narrative about aliens. 570 00:19:26,875 --> 00:19:28,043 And, even then, 571 00:19:28,076 --> 00:19:30,043 Betty and Barney Hill are 572 00:19:30,043 --> 00:19:30,212 Betty and Barney Hill are 573 00:19:30,245 --> 00:19:31,714 one of the first abduction stories 574 00:19:31,747 --> 00:19:33,548 that takes place in the 1950s. 575 00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:48,043 [Carrion] At that point, it becomes its own myth. 576 00:19:48,043 --> 00:19:49,498 [Carrion] At that point, it becomes its own myth. 577 00:19:49,531 --> 00:19:51,233 My mother and I have both had 578 00:19:51,266 --> 00:19:52,868 close encounters of the fourth kind, 579 00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:54,043 also known as abduction experiences. 580 00:19:54,043 --> 00:19:54,903 also known as abduction experiences. 581 00:19:54,936 --> 00:19:56,272 [indistinct chatter] 582 00:19:56,305 --> 00:19:58,540 [Carrion] And if they created the UFO myth, 583 00:19:58,573 --> 00:20:00,043 that means they also perpetuated the UFO myth. 584 00:20:00,043 --> 00:20:00,643 that means they also perpetuated the UFO myth. 585 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:02,978 ♪ 586 00:20:09,117 --> 00:20:10,552 My name is Richard Doty. 587 00:20:10,585 --> 00:20:12,043 I'm a former 588 00:20:12,043 --> 00:20:12,221 I'm a former 589 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:14,757 intelligence officer for the United States Air Force. 590 00:20:14,790 --> 00:20:17,426 I worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations 591 00:20:17,459 --> 00:20:18,043 from 1978 to 1988. 592 00:20:18,043 --> 00:20:19,961 from 1978 to 1988. 593 00:20:20,962 --> 00:20:23,732 [Knapp] Richard Doty is an interesting character. 594 00:20:23,765 --> 00:20:24,043 He actually was someone who worked on the inside 595 00:20:24,043 --> 00:20:26,168 He actually was someone who worked on the inside 596 00:20:26,201 --> 00:20:27,836 in disinformation. 597 00:20:27,869 --> 00:20:29,638 Yeah, there is disinformation. 598 00:20:29,671 --> 00:20:30,043 Of course there is. There is-is attached 599 00:20:30,043 --> 00:20:31,340 Of course there is. There is-is attached 600 00:20:31,373 --> 00:20:33,442 to every classified project. 601 00:20:33,475 --> 00:20:34,743 It-it comes with the territory. 602 00:20:41,416 --> 00:20:42,043 Yes. 603 00:20:42,043 --> 00:20:42,851 Yes. 604 00:20:42,884 --> 00:20:44,085 Absolutely. 605 00:20:44,820 --> 00:20:46,689 We did do that, yes. 606 00:20:46,722 --> 00:20:48,043 ♪ slow, suspenseful music ♪ 607 00:20:48,043 --> 00:20:48,857 ♪ slow, suspenseful music ♪ 608 00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:50,693 We don't call it disinformation. 609 00:20:50,726 --> 00:20:53,329 We call it counterintelligence operation. 610 00:20:53,362 --> 00:20:54,043 Convincing the enemy the... 611 00:20:54,043 --> 00:20:55,564 Convincing the enemy the... 612 00:20:55,597 --> 00:20:58,067 whatever we wanted them to believe. 613 00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:00,043 If some people tapped into something 614 00:21:00,043 --> 00:21:00,502 If some people tapped into something 615 00:21:00,535 --> 00:21:02,137 or they photographed things 616 00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:04,907 that were being tested at Kirtland Air Force Base, 617 00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:06,043 we have to develop an operation 618 00:21:06,043 --> 00:21:06,975 we have to develop an operation 619 00:21:07,008 --> 00:21:08,844 and convince 'em what they saw 620 00:21:08,877 --> 00:21:09,778 were UFOs. 621 00:21:09,811 --> 00:21:12,043 ♪ 622 00:21:12,043 --> 00:21:12,114 ♪ 623 00:21:12,147 --> 00:21:14,717 Which led into the Paul Bennewitz operation. 624 00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:17,152 ♪ soft, hypnotic music ♪ 625 00:21:17,185 --> 00:21:18,043 ♪ 626 00:21:18,043 --> 00:21:19,688 ♪ 627 00:21:21,356 --> 00:21:22,725 Paul Bennewitz 628 00:21:22,758 --> 00:21:24,043 tapped into a highly classified program 629 00:21:24,043 --> 00:21:24,727 tapped into a highly classified program 630 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,196 at Kirtland Air Force Base. 631 00:21:27,229 --> 00:21:28,564 In the early '80s, 632 00:21:28,597 --> 00:21:30,043 the Air Force was testing drones, 633 00:21:30,043 --> 00:21:30,999 the Air Force was testing drones, 634 00:21:31,032 --> 00:21:34,136 and drones were highly classified. 635 00:21:34,169 --> 00:21:35,671 But on the base, 636 00:21:35,704 --> 00:21:36,043 we had a-a National Security Agency facility 637 00:21:36,043 --> 00:21:39,241 we had a-a National Security Agency facility 638 00:21:39,274 --> 00:21:40,209 with a high-energy laser. 639 00:21:40,242 --> 00:21:41,877 [beeping] 640 00:21:41,910 --> 00:21:42,043 When a Soviet satellite would pass over the base, 641 00:21:42,043 --> 00:21:44,413 When a Soviet satellite would pass over the base, 642 00:21:44,446 --> 00:21:48,043 the laser would hit the lens of the camera, 643 00:21:48,043 --> 00:21:48,550 the laser would hit the lens of the camera, 644 00:21:48,583 --> 00:21:50,085 blinding that satellite, 645 00:21:50,118 --> 00:21:52,654 so the satellite couldn't take any pictures. 646 00:21:53,789 --> 00:21:54,043 Paul's seen these things. 647 00:21:54,043 --> 00:21:55,858 Paul's seen these things. 648 00:21:55,891 --> 00:21:57,526 Paul photographed these things. 649 00:21:57,559 --> 00:21:59,027 [Bill Moore] Whatever it was 650 00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:00,043 that Bennewitz was involved with, 651 00:22:00,043 --> 00:22:01,263 that Bennewitz was involved with, 652 00:22:01,296 --> 00:22:03,732 he was the subject of considerable interest 653 00:22:03,765 --> 00:22:06,043 on the part of not one but several government agencies. 654 00:22:06,043 --> 00:22:07,736 on the part of not one but several government agencies. 655 00:22:07,769 --> 00:22:10,906 And that they were actively trying to defuse him 656 00:22:10,939 --> 00:22:12,043 by pumping as much mis-- disinformation through him 657 00:22:12,043 --> 00:22:13,675 by pumping as much mis-- disinformation through him 658 00:22:13,708 --> 00:22:16,078 as he could possibly absorb. 659 00:22:16,111 --> 00:22:18,043 [Doty] Some of the information that we give 660 00:22:18,043 --> 00:22:19,715 [Doty] Some of the information that we give 661 00:22:19,748 --> 00:22:22,084 has to be accurate, 662 00:22:22,117 --> 00:22:23,552 because people have common sense. 663 00:22:23,585 --> 00:22:24,043 So you have 664 00:22:24,043 --> 00:22:25,053 So you have 665 00:22:25,086 --> 00:22:27,289 to give 'em a little bit of real information 666 00:22:27,322 --> 00:22:30,043 before you throw in the, uh... 667 00:22:30,043 --> 00:22:30,459 before you throw in the, uh... 668 00:22:30,492 --> 00:22:32,494 the, uh, disinformation. 669 00:22:33,829 --> 00:22:35,798 They believe a little. 670 00:22:35,831 --> 00:22:36,043 And then you add more 671 00:22:36,043 --> 00:22:38,767 And then you add more 672 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,303 and more and more, 673 00:22:41,336 --> 00:22:42,043 and that person opens their mind up and says, 674 00:22:42,043 --> 00:22:42,938 and that person opens their mind up and says, 675 00:22:42,971 --> 00:22:45,106 "You know what? I think this is all real." 676 00:22:46,641 --> 00:22:48,043 Maybe the government wants them to be the believers 677 00:22:48,043 --> 00:22:49,645 Maybe the government wants them to be the believers 678 00:22:49,678 --> 00:22:51,814 because what they saw were in fact 679 00:22:51,847 --> 00:22:53,682 our testing crafts. 680 00:22:53,715 --> 00:22:54,043 [insects trilling] 681 00:22:54,043 --> 00:22:56,551 [insects trilling] 682 00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:58,687 Paul was a believer. 683 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,043 I became friends with Paul. 684 00:23:00,043 --> 00:23:00,656 I became friends with Paul. 685 00:23:00,689 --> 00:23:02,624 He became friends with me. 686 00:23:02,657 --> 00:23:04,092 Over a period of time, 687 00:23:04,125 --> 00:23:06,043 after this was all over with, I sat down 688 00:23:06,043 --> 00:23:06,261 after this was all over with, I sat down 689 00:23:06,294 --> 00:23:08,530 with Paul and tried to convince him otherwise, 690 00:23:08,563 --> 00:23:10,065 and Paul wouldn't hear it. 691 00:23:10,098 --> 00:23:11,433 He said, "You don't have to tell me these things. 692 00:23:11,466 --> 00:23:12,043 I understand it's classified. 693 00:23:12,043 --> 00:23:13,402 I understand it's classified. 694 00:23:13,435 --> 00:23:15,404 I understand you don't have to tell me these. 695 00:23:15,437 --> 00:23:16,872 I believe it was UFOs." 696 00:23:16,905 --> 00:23:18,043 ♪ slow, dramatic music ♪ 697 00:23:18,043 --> 00:23:19,808 ♪ slow, dramatic music ♪ 698 00:23:19,841 --> 00:23:22,143 ♪ 699 00:23:33,989 --> 00:23:36,024 [Carrion] Somebody's a true believer in UFOs, 700 00:23:36,057 --> 00:23:38,193 you can't convince them otherwise 701 00:23:38,226 --> 00:23:40,295 that this is not alien in origin. 702 00:23:40,328 --> 00:23:42,043 ♪ 703 00:23:42,043 --> 00:23:42,197 ♪ 704 00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:45,267 What it really boils down to is it's a religion. 705 00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:47,503 It's a belief system 706 00:23:47,536 --> 00:23:48,043 that-- just like you can't convince folks otherwise that 707 00:23:48,043 --> 00:23:51,540 that-- just like you can't convince folks otherwise that 708 00:23:51,573 --> 00:23:52,941 God doesn't exist 709 00:23:52,974 --> 00:23:54,043 or that Christ didn't exist. 710 00:23:54,043 --> 00:23:56,144 or that Christ didn't exist. 711 00:23:57,078 --> 00:23:59,381 [Doty] The strange part of the Paul Bennewitz operation 712 00:23:59,414 --> 00:24:00,043 was Paul Bennewitz photographed things that weren't involved 713 00:24:00,043 --> 00:24:02,751 was Paul Bennewitz photographed things that weren't involved 714 00:24:02,784 --> 00:24:05,487 in secret government projects. 715 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,043 [shutter clicks] 716 00:24:06,043 --> 00:24:07,289 [shutter clicks] 717 00:24:07,322 --> 00:24:09,024 He photographed UFOs. 718 00:24:09,057 --> 00:24:12,043 He actually photographed a UFO over Dulce, New Mexico. 719 00:24:12,043 --> 00:24:12,827 He actually photographed a UFO over Dulce, New Mexico. 720 00:24:17,399 --> 00:24:18,043 I didn't-- I didn't lie to Paul Bennewitz. 721 00:24:18,043 --> 00:24:19,668 I didn't-- I didn't lie to Paul Bennewitz. 722 00:24:19,701 --> 00:24:21,270 I had a job to do. 723 00:24:21,303 --> 00:24:22,704 I-I wasn't a maverick. 724 00:24:22,737 --> 00:24:24,043 I just didn't go out and do this on my own. 725 00:24:24,043 --> 00:24:25,674 I just didn't go out and do this on my own. 726 00:24:25,707 --> 00:24:27,743 My supervisors told me, "Listen, 727 00:24:27,776 --> 00:24:30,043 we don't want him to go out to the public, 728 00:24:30,043 --> 00:24:30,479 we don't want him to go out to the public, 729 00:24:30,512 --> 00:24:32,014 go on camera and say, 730 00:24:32,047 --> 00:24:34,816 'Hey, I just tapped into a secret laser 731 00:24:34,849 --> 00:24:36,043 on Kirtland Air Force Base.'" 732 00:24:36,043 --> 00:24:36,351 on Kirtland Air Force Base.'" 733 00:24:36,384 --> 00:24:38,554 Obviously, we can't have that happen, 734 00:24:38,587 --> 00:24:40,422 So all I had to do was say, 735 00:24:40,455 --> 00:24:41,823 "Well, you know what, Paul? 736 00:24:41,856 --> 00:24:42,043 Maybe what you did see was UFOs." 737 00:24:42,043 --> 00:24:44,893 Maybe what you did see was UFOs." 738 00:24:44,926 --> 00:24:47,029 ♪ soft, tense music ♪ 739 00:24:47,062 --> 00:24:48,043 [Greenewald] Look, we've established in history 740 00:24:48,043 --> 00:24:49,398 [Greenewald] Look, we've established in history 741 00:24:49,431 --> 00:24:51,433 and documents through the Freedom of Information Act, 742 00:24:51,466 --> 00:24:54,043 the CIA and the military complex as a whole 743 00:24:54,043 --> 00:24:54,202 the CIA and the military complex as a whole 744 00:24:54,235 --> 00:24:58,707 has really aimed to essentially mislead the public 745 00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:00,043 when it comes to UFOs, 746 00:25:00,043 --> 00:25:00,475 when it comes to UFOs, 747 00:25:00,508 --> 00:25:02,911 tell them something that necessarily is not the truth. 748 00:25:02,944 --> 00:25:05,480 We've seen it time and time again, 749 00:25:05,513 --> 00:25:06,043 through the decades, over and over and over. 750 00:25:06,043 --> 00:25:08,083 through the decades, over and over and over. 751 00:25:08,116 --> 00:25:09,685 [Mark Walker] As the ranking member 752 00:25:09,718 --> 00:25:10,919 of Terrorism and Counterintelligence, 753 00:25:10,952 --> 00:25:12,043 we have questions. 754 00:25:12,043 --> 00:25:12,754 we have questions. 755 00:25:12,787 --> 00:25:15,390 Uh, it comes down to some of the new infrared radar systems 756 00:25:15,423 --> 00:25:17,326 that we're putting in some of our new jets 757 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,043 are detecting some things out there. 758 00:25:18,043 --> 00:25:19,661 are detecting some things out there. 759 00:25:19,694 --> 00:25:21,363 We want to know the information. 760 00:25:21,396 --> 00:25:23,364 And that's why it's important that we take a look at this. 761 00:25:24,633 --> 00:25:27,869 [Greenewald] In the process of us, the general public, 762 00:25:27,902 --> 00:25:29,938 posing that question, hearing 763 00:25:29,971 --> 00:25:30,043 those nightly news stories for 90 seconds 764 00:25:30,043 --> 00:25:32,074 those nightly news stories for 90 seconds 765 00:25:32,107 --> 00:25:33,909 about "this could be alien," 766 00:25:33,942 --> 00:25:36,043 all of that takes the attention away 767 00:25:36,043 --> 00:25:36,278 all of that takes the attention away 768 00:25:36,311 --> 00:25:38,413 from that left hand of the magician. 769 00:25:39,748 --> 00:25:42,043 And that is the classified pieces of technology 770 00:25:42,043 --> 00:25:43,218 And that is the classified pieces of technology 771 00:25:43,251 --> 00:25:45,320 that are being utilized, tested 772 00:25:45,353 --> 00:25:48,043 and potentially implemented tomorrow. 773 00:25:48,043 --> 00:25:48,290 and potentially implemented tomorrow. 774 00:25:48,323 --> 00:25:50,792 [insects trilling] 775 00:25:51,793 --> 00:25:53,395 Take a facility like 776 00:25:53,428 --> 00:25:54,043 Area 51. 777 00:25:54,043 --> 00:25:54,563 Area 51. 778 00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:57,065 [birds chirping] 779 00:25:57,098 --> 00:25:58,967 There is this mythology around 780 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,043 a piece of a UFO from an alien spacecraft. 781 00:26:00,043 --> 00:26:02,537 a piece of a UFO from an alien spacecraft. 782 00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:04,106 ♪ soft, tense music ♪ 783 00:26:04,139 --> 00:26:05,407 [Donna Tryon] Some of them are just curious. 784 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,043 They don't know what it's about. 785 00:26:06,043 --> 00:26:06,908 They don't know what it's about. 786 00:26:06,941 --> 00:26:08,777 Other people believe that they've been abducted. 787 00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:10,779 Other people believe they are actually aliens 788 00:26:10,812 --> 00:26:12,043 and they want to go out there to hopefully get back home. 789 00:26:12,043 --> 00:26:14,149 and they want to go out there to hopefully get back home. 790 00:26:14,182 --> 00:26:17,919 [newsman] Now, one million UFO enthusiasts on Facebook say 791 00:26:17,952 --> 00:26:18,043 they'll storm Area 51 792 00:26:18,043 --> 00:26:19,721 they'll storm Area 51 793 00:26:19,754 --> 00:26:22,724 because a spaceship crashed there 794 00:26:22,757 --> 00:26:24,043 and then we took the aliens captive to study them. 795 00:26:24,043 --> 00:26:24,593 and then we took the aliens captive to study them. 796 00:26:24,626 --> 00:26:26,928 Is that the problem? 797 00:26:26,961 --> 00:26:28,730 That's one way of thinking. 798 00:26:28,763 --> 00:26:30,043 [Greenewald] You can't fly over it. 799 00:26:30,043 --> 00:26:30,599 [Greenewald] You can't fly over it. 800 00:26:30,632 --> 00:26:32,467 You can't get near it. 801 00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:34,503 And there's probably a heck of a lot we can't see underground. 802 00:26:34,536 --> 00:26:36,043 [newswoman] There is so much 803 00:26:36,043 --> 00:26:36,938 [newswoman] There is so much 804 00:26:36,971 --> 00:26:38,740 activity going on out there. 805 00:26:38,773 --> 00:26:40,609 Overhead espionage, 806 00:26:40,642 --> 00:26:42,043 countermeasures against electronic warfare, 807 00:26:42,043 --> 00:26:43,979 countermeasures against electronic warfare, 808 00:26:44,012 --> 00:26:46,782 paramilitary training. 809 00:26:46,815 --> 00:26:48,043 It's got all these elements 810 00:26:48,043 --> 00:26:48,450 It's got all these elements 811 00:26:48,483 --> 00:26:50,619 and you throw the UFO lore into it, 812 00:26:50,652 --> 00:26:54,043 you got a lot of ears and eyeballs on Area 51. 813 00:26:54,043 --> 00:26:54,088 you got a lot of ears and eyeballs on Area 51. 814 00:26:55,356 --> 00:26:57,959 [Knapp] It could be drones. It could be test aircraft, 815 00:26:57,992 --> 00:26:59,628 It could be satellites. 816 00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:00,043 It's all the things that people mistake for alien craft, 817 00:27:00,043 --> 00:27:03,098 It's all the things that people mistake for alien craft, 818 00:27:03,131 --> 00:27:04,166 if that's what you want to call 'em. 819 00:27:04,199 --> 00:27:05,500 We don't know what they are. 820 00:27:06,468 --> 00:27:09,738 [Greenewald] We know that is the ultimate testing ground 821 00:27:09,771 --> 00:27:11,807 for advances in technology. 822 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:12,043 [Joerg Arnu] They talk about, 823 00:27:12,043 --> 00:27:13,575 [Joerg Arnu] They talk about, 824 00:27:13,608 --> 00:27:15,610 "Well, we have a prototype. It's not flying. 825 00:27:15,643 --> 00:27:17,813 We're just building a flying prototype now." 826 00:27:17,846 --> 00:27:18,043 It's been flying for years, 827 00:27:18,043 --> 00:27:19,181 It's been flying for years, 828 00:27:19,214 --> 00:27:21,349 out of Area 51, right over these hills. 829 00:27:21,382 --> 00:27:23,118 [insects trilling] 830 00:27:23,151 --> 00:27:24,043 ♪ 831 00:27:24,043 --> 00:27:26,188 ♪ 832 00:27:26,221 --> 00:27:28,023 [Knapp] There are documents to prove it, 833 00:27:28,056 --> 00:27:30,043 and a lot of this material had been squeezed out 834 00:27:30,043 --> 00:27:30,192 and a lot of this material had been squeezed out 835 00:27:30,225 --> 00:27:31,793 of the government via FOIA, 836 00:27:31,826 --> 00:27:33,361 uh, Freedom of Information Act. 837 00:27:33,394 --> 00:27:36,043 You've got all kinds of human activity going on. 838 00:27:36,043 --> 00:27:36,231 You've got all kinds of human activity going on. 839 00:27:36,264 --> 00:27:38,333 Attempts to spread disinformation. That's real. 840 00:27:38,366 --> 00:27:41,069 That's happened. That comes with just about every 841 00:27:41,102 --> 00:27:42,043 advanced secret project, uh, that we have, 842 00:27:42,043 --> 00:27:43,305 advanced secret project, uh, that we have, 843 00:27:43,338 --> 00:27:45,474 that it's standard operating procedure. 844 00:27:45,507 --> 00:27:47,909 Doesn't mean that everything is disinformation. 845 00:27:47,942 --> 00:27:48,043 Another day, yet another new explanation 846 00:27:48,043 --> 00:27:50,579 Another day, yet another new explanation 847 00:27:50,612 --> 00:27:52,080 from the U.S. government 848 00:27:52,113 --> 00:27:54,043 for all those unexplained UFO sightings in the sky 849 00:27:54,043 --> 00:27:54,750 for all those unexplained UFO sightings in the sky 850 00:27:54,783 --> 00:27:55,684 since the 1950s. 851 00:27:55,717 --> 00:27:57,285 This time, 852 00:27:57,318 --> 00:27:59,354 it's the CIA's turn. They say 853 00:27:59,387 --> 00:28:00,043 that many Americans who saw UFOs were really seeing 854 00:28:00,043 --> 00:28:02,357 that many Americans who saw UFOs were really seeing 855 00:28:02,390 --> 00:28:03,859 U-2s, 856 00:28:03,892 --> 00:28:05,894 -America's then high-flying -[whirring] 857 00:28:05,927 --> 00:28:06,043 and highly classified spy planes. 858 00:28:06,043 --> 00:28:08,063 and highly classified spy planes. 859 00:28:08,096 --> 00:28:10,031 ♪ 860 00:28:10,064 --> 00:28:12,043 [Knapp] The U-2 and the SR-71 planes 861 00:28:12,043 --> 00:28:13,335 [Knapp] The U-2 and the SR-71 planes 862 00:28:13,368 --> 00:28:15,237 those spy planes could fly way up there. 863 00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:17,072 They don't land in people's yards. 864 00:28:17,105 --> 00:28:18,043 They don't hover over people's houses. 865 00:28:18,043 --> 00:28:19,141 They don't hover over people's houses. 866 00:28:19,174 --> 00:28:21,076 They're not glowing round objects. 867 00:28:21,109 --> 00:28:23,278 They were created to not be seen. 868 00:28:23,311 --> 00:28:24,043 They're spy planes. They fly way up there. 869 00:28:24,043 --> 00:28:26,214 They're spy planes. They fly way up there. 870 00:28:26,247 --> 00:28:29,785 But the CIA says, "Oh, yeah, all those thousands 871 00:28:29,818 --> 00:28:30,043 of UFO reports, that's us." 872 00:28:30,043 --> 00:28:31,385 of UFO reports, that's us." 873 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,222 [Carrion] The problem is that 874 00:28:34,255 --> 00:28:36,043 the data 875 00:28:36,043 --> 00:28:36,591 the data 876 00:28:36,624 --> 00:28:39,194 that makes up the UFO subject 877 00:28:39,227 --> 00:28:42,043 is filled with too much garbage. 878 00:28:42,043 --> 00:28:42,597 is filled with too much garbage. 879 00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:44,132 It's too muddied. 880 00:28:44,165 --> 00:28:46,434 It's a big landfill, is essentially what it is. 881 00:28:46,467 --> 00:28:48,043 -[woman] Another one, too! -[woman 2] Where? 882 00:28:48,043 --> 00:28:48,236 -[woman] Another one, too! -[woman 2] Where? 883 00:28:48,269 --> 00:28:51,606 [Carrion] There's enough muddy data in this subject 884 00:28:51,639 --> 00:28:53,275 that we don't need more... 885 00:28:53,308 --> 00:28:54,043 questions. 886 00:28:54,043 --> 00:28:54,109 questions. 887 00:28:54,142 --> 00:28:55,777 Right? We need answers. 888 00:28:55,810 --> 00:28:57,746 -[man] It was a UFO. -[Carrion] What I've noticed 889 00:28:57,779 --> 00:29:00,043 through the years is that, whenever the subject of UFO 890 00:29:00,043 --> 00:29:00,081 through the years is that, whenever the subject of UFO 891 00:29:00,114 --> 00:29:01,449 wanes in the media, 892 00:29:01,482 --> 00:29:03,218 something happens that all of a sudden 893 00:29:03,251 --> 00:29:04,553 increases interest again. 894 00:29:04,586 --> 00:29:06,043 [woman] We saw five lights in a row. 895 00:29:06,043 --> 00:29:06,922 [woman] We saw five lights in a row. 896 00:29:06,955 --> 00:29:09,390 [Carrion] The Phoenix lights, for example. 897 00:29:10,959 --> 00:29:12,043 You have to understand, you know, 898 00:29:12,043 --> 00:29:12,561 You have to understand, you know, 899 00:29:12,594 --> 00:29:14,629 if a-- something happens, if an event happens, 900 00:29:14,662 --> 00:29:15,764 there has to be a context to it. 901 00:29:15,797 --> 00:29:18,043 ♪ 902 00:29:18,043 --> 00:29:18,166 ♪ 903 00:29:18,967 --> 00:29:20,202 [John Powell] I was kind of excited 904 00:29:20,235 --> 00:29:21,970 when I saw the Phoenix Lights. 905 00:29:22,003 --> 00:29:23,471 I thought it was a competitor. 906 00:29:23,504 --> 00:29:24,043 I thought, "Someone has been doing this work 907 00:29:24,043 --> 00:29:26,741 I thought, "Someone has been doing this work 908 00:29:26,774 --> 00:29:28,743 well before me." 909 00:29:28,776 --> 00:29:30,011 But, to be honest, 910 00:29:30,044 --> 00:29:31,847 I recognized the tech. [chuckles] 911 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,682 ♪ gentle, mysterious music ♪ 912 00:29:33,715 --> 00:29:36,043 ♪ 913 00:29:36,043 --> 00:29:36,451 ♪ 914 00:29:36,484 --> 00:29:37,786 In the '50s, 915 00:29:37,819 --> 00:29:39,454 the Air Force was experimenting with extreme 916 00:29:39,487 --> 00:29:42,043 high-altitude balloons and airships. 917 00:29:42,043 --> 00:29:42,557 high-altitude balloons and airships. 918 00:29:43,391 --> 00:29:46,628 And they made dozens and dozens of different designs, 919 00:29:46,661 --> 00:29:48,043 experimented with wings, 920 00:29:48,043 --> 00:29:48,129 experimented with wings, 921 00:29:48,162 --> 00:29:50,131 all kinds of different shapes of balloons. 922 00:29:50,164 --> 00:29:51,466 And the winner 923 00:29:51,499 --> 00:29:53,901 was, you know, the "V" configuration. 924 00:29:56,671 --> 00:29:59,641 It's the only shape that allows you 925 00:29:59,674 --> 00:30:00,043 to operate successfully in all three aerodynamic regimes, 926 00:30:00,043 --> 00:30:04,012 to operate successfully in all three aerodynamic regimes, 927 00:30:04,045 --> 00:30:06,043 subsonic, supersonic 928 00:30:06,043 --> 00:30:06,514 subsonic, supersonic 929 00:30:06,547 --> 00:30:08,183 and hypersonic. 930 00:30:08,216 --> 00:30:10,151 Well, they're flying balloons up to Mach 10 931 00:30:10,184 --> 00:30:12,043 in the late '50s and early '60s, 932 00:30:12,043 --> 00:30:12,754 in the late '50s and early '60s, 933 00:30:12,787 --> 00:30:16,358 and they were flying in at 300,000 feet. 934 00:30:16,391 --> 00:30:18,043 ♪ tense, mysterious music ♪ 935 00:30:18,043 --> 00:30:18,260 ♪ tense, mysterious music ♪ 936 00:30:18,293 --> 00:30:21,396 Our whole program with the big V-shaped airships 937 00:30:21,429 --> 00:30:24,032 is to go higher and higher and higher. 938 00:30:24,065 --> 00:30:25,166 Can you take that 939 00:30:25,199 --> 00:30:26,568 all the way to space 940 00:30:26,601 --> 00:30:28,269 and do away with the rocket altogether? 941 00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:30,043 That's what we've been doing here for 42 years now, 942 00:30:30,043 --> 00:30:33,375 That's what we've been doing here for 42 years now, 943 00:30:33,408 --> 00:30:35,076 working on the Airship to Orbit project. 944 00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:36,043 We built a series of vehicles for the Air Force, 945 00:30:36,043 --> 00:30:38,446 We built a series of vehicles for the Air Force, 946 00:30:38,479 --> 00:30:40,081 resulting in the largest one, 947 00:30:40,114 --> 00:30:42,043 called the Ascender 175, in 2004. 948 00:30:42,043 --> 00:30:42,950 called the Ascender 175, in 2004. 949 00:30:43,751 --> 00:30:46,321 The Ascender is the same configuration 950 00:30:46,354 --> 00:30:47,989 as the Phoenix lights, so, naturally, 951 00:30:48,022 --> 00:30:48,043 it looks like that vehicle. 952 00:30:48,043 --> 00:30:50,258 it looks like that vehicle. 953 00:30:50,291 --> 00:30:52,594 And the way it was described, 954 00:30:52,627 --> 00:30:53,561 how it moved, 955 00:30:53,594 --> 00:30:54,043 it moves like this vehicle. 956 00:30:54,043 --> 00:30:56,231 it moves like this vehicle. 957 00:30:56,264 --> 00:30:58,066 Since there's no engines on it, 958 00:30:58,099 --> 00:30:59,467 it's doing all this fast maneuvering 959 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:00,043 and making no noise at all. 960 00:31:00,043 --> 00:31:01,770 and making no noise at all. 961 00:31:01,803 --> 00:31:04,339 It appeared. Your whole brain tells you 962 00:31:04,372 --> 00:31:06,043 it has screamed away. 963 00:31:06,043 --> 00:31:06,274 it has screamed away. 964 00:31:06,307 --> 00:31:07,475 It's like, "What just happened?" 965 00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:11,780 I'm personally convinced it was not this vehicle, 966 00:31:11,813 --> 00:31:12,043 'cause this was later, 967 00:31:12,043 --> 00:31:13,281 'cause this was later, 968 00:31:13,314 --> 00:31:15,951 but it's definitely the same technology. 969 00:31:15,984 --> 00:31:17,652 What it tells me 970 00:31:17,685 --> 00:31:18,043 is that the Air Force research on V-shaped airships 971 00:31:18,043 --> 00:31:20,922 is that the Air Force research on V-shaped airships 972 00:31:20,955 --> 00:31:23,725 continued. 973 00:31:23,758 --> 00:31:24,043 And what kinds of things are they doing with those vehicles? 974 00:31:24,043 --> 00:31:26,795 And what kinds of things are they doing with those vehicles? 975 00:31:26,828 --> 00:31:29,330 ♪ 976 00:31:31,332 --> 00:31:33,501 [Carrion] There's nothing new under the sun. 977 00:31:33,534 --> 00:31:35,770 There's always a precedent to something that happens. 978 00:31:35,803 --> 00:31:36,043 ♪ soft, somber music ♪ 979 00:31:36,043 --> 00:31:37,672 ♪ soft, somber music ♪ 980 00:31:37,705 --> 00:31:39,674 ♪ 981 00:31:39,707 --> 00:31:42,043 I think, with the Nimitz event, you have 982 00:31:42,043 --> 00:31:42,310 I think, with the Nimitz event, you have 983 00:31:42,343 --> 00:31:46,114 Navy pilots who said they saw something. 984 00:31:46,147 --> 00:31:48,043 They're usually very good observers 985 00:31:48,043 --> 00:31:48,183 They're usually very good observers 986 00:31:48,216 --> 00:31:52,186 and they have no reason to be lying about what they saw. 987 00:31:53,354 --> 00:31:54,043 I think the question is, 988 00:31:54,043 --> 00:31:55,290 I think the question is, 989 00:31:55,323 --> 00:31:57,825 were they being manipulated? 990 00:31:59,494 --> 00:32:00,043 [Greenewald] There's a big possibility-- 991 00:32:00,043 --> 00:32:02,097 [Greenewald] There's a big possibility-- 992 00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:03,498 with incidents like the Nimitz, 993 00:32:03,531 --> 00:32:05,633 the Roosevelt encounters, 994 00:32:05,666 --> 00:32:06,043 and quite a few others through the years-- 995 00:32:06,043 --> 00:32:07,502 and quite a few others through the years-- 996 00:32:07,535 --> 00:32:09,571 there's a big possibility that is done 997 00:32:09,604 --> 00:32:11,406 by the U.S. military itself. 998 00:32:11,439 --> 00:32:12,043 Now we know that the U.S. Navy says, 999 00:32:12,043 --> 00:32:12,941 Now we know that the U.S. Navy says, 1000 00:32:12,974 --> 00:32:14,976 "Well, we have no idea what these things are," 1001 00:32:15,009 --> 00:32:17,278 but that doesn't mean that the United States Air Force, 1002 00:32:17,311 --> 00:32:18,043 who has been mysteriously quiet 1003 00:32:18,043 --> 00:32:19,114 who has been mysteriously quiet 1004 00:32:19,147 --> 00:32:23,351 about the whole UAP UFO issue, doesn't know what they are. 1005 00:32:24,152 --> 00:32:26,221 The best way to test 1006 00:32:26,254 --> 00:32:28,356 whatever classified piece of technology, 1007 00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:30,043 whether it be a drone swarm, whether it be 1008 00:32:30,043 --> 00:32:30,392 whether it be a drone swarm, whether it be 1009 00:32:30,425 --> 00:32:33,328 a new radar reflector, whether it be something 1010 00:32:33,361 --> 00:32:35,530 that can fly incredibly fast in the sky-- 1011 00:32:35,563 --> 00:32:36,043 what better way to test it 1012 00:32:36,043 --> 00:32:37,665 what better way to test it 1013 00:32:37,698 --> 00:32:39,834 but against the most powerful Navy 1014 00:32:39,867 --> 00:32:41,702 that you can find on the planet Earth? 1015 00:32:42,537 --> 00:32:44,472 [Day] So I'm out there doing an exercise. 1016 00:32:44,505 --> 00:32:46,808 Um, it's built around the principle of safety. 1017 00:32:46,841 --> 00:32:48,043 And to have someone else put a test 1018 00:32:48,043 --> 00:32:49,244 And to have someone else put a test 1019 00:32:49,277 --> 00:32:51,346 on top of that-- 1020 00:32:51,379 --> 00:32:53,281 another exercise on top of mine-- 1021 00:32:53,314 --> 00:32:54,043 was highly ill-advised, 1022 00:32:54,043 --> 00:32:55,517 was highly ill-advised, 1023 00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:59,020 extremely dangerous and probably even illegal. 1024 00:32:59,053 --> 00:33:00,043 [Greenewald] Can it chase it? Can it catch it? 1025 00:33:00,043 --> 00:33:01,756 [Greenewald] Can it chase it? Can it catch it? 1026 00:33:01,789 --> 00:33:04,125 Can highly-trained Navy personnel 1027 00:33:04,158 --> 00:33:06,043 deep under the deck 1028 00:33:06,043 --> 00:33:06,161 deep under the deck 1029 00:33:06,194 --> 00:33:08,196 of the USS Princeton see it on their radar screens? 1030 00:33:08,229 --> 00:33:11,366 What can they deduce? What can they find out about it? 1031 00:33:11,399 --> 00:33:12,043 What can they see? 1032 00:33:12,043 --> 00:33:13,067 What can they see? 1033 00:33:14,368 --> 00:33:16,037 Military says that that's not what happened, 1034 00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:18,043 but I think that there's a big possibility 1035 00:33:18,043 --> 00:33:19,140 but I think that there's a big possibility 1036 00:33:19,173 --> 00:33:21,309 all of that is misinformation, and they absolutely 1037 00:33:21,342 --> 00:33:23,277 are testing their own technology. 1038 00:33:24,779 --> 00:33:27,182 [Knapp] I'm not an engineer or scientist, but there are 1039 00:33:27,215 --> 00:33:29,551 all kinds of things that we can't do on this planet. 1040 00:33:29,584 --> 00:33:30,043 The Tic Tac video is evidence of an engineering 1041 00:33:30,043 --> 00:33:33,121 The Tic Tac video is evidence of an engineering 1042 00:33:33,154 --> 00:33:34,789 process that we don't have. 1043 00:33:34,822 --> 00:33:36,043 It's technology 1044 00:33:36,043 --> 00:33:36,791 It's technology 1045 00:33:36,824 --> 00:33:40,428 that is still beyond our cutting edge, that is in 1046 00:33:40,461 --> 00:33:42,043 the kind of things that we are projecting 50 years in advance. 1047 00:33:42,043 --> 00:33:43,465 the kind of things that we are projecting 50 years in advance. 1048 00:33:43,498 --> 00:33:45,033 That's how it's been explained to me. 1049 00:33:45,066 --> 00:33:46,801 ♪ slow, gentle music ♪ 1050 00:33:46,834 --> 00:33:48,043 ♪ 1051 00:33:48,043 --> 00:33:49,070 ♪ 1052 00:33:49,103 --> 00:33:52,907 [Blumenthal] We've heard from top experts in our government 1053 00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:54,043 and in the field that the capabilities 1054 00:33:54,043 --> 00:33:55,910 and in the field that the capabilities 1055 00:33:55,943 --> 00:33:59,180 of these objects exceed anything known on Earth. 1056 00:33:59,213 --> 00:34:00,043 I mean, that's the-the conclusion 1057 00:34:00,043 --> 00:34:00,915 I mean, that's the-the conclusion 1058 00:34:00,948 --> 00:34:02,517 that comes through loud and clear. 1059 00:34:02,550 --> 00:34:05,786 The other thing is, uh... 1060 00:34:08,489 --> 00:34:09,791 In the defense industry, in the government, 1061 00:34:09,824 --> 00:34:11,893 in private industry-- the consultants 1062 00:34:11,926 --> 00:34:12,043 who are working with the government. 1063 00:34:12,043 --> 00:34:13,895 who are working with the government. 1064 00:34:13,928 --> 00:34:17,198 Now, are they all lying to cover up some secret research? 1065 00:34:17,231 --> 00:34:18,043 Perhaps. 1066 00:34:18,043 --> 00:34:18,233 Perhaps. 1067 00:34:18,266 --> 00:34:20,101 But certainly, 1068 00:34:20,134 --> 00:34:21,870 all the experts we've talked to in and out of the government 1069 00:34:21,903 --> 00:34:24,043 say that these things seem to have 1070 00:34:24,043 --> 00:34:25,573 say that these things seem to have 1071 00:34:25,606 --> 00:34:27,475 capabilities not known on Earth. 1072 00:34:27,508 --> 00:34:30,043 If these things are our own government's secret, 1073 00:34:30,043 --> 00:34:31,779 If these things are our own government's secret, 1074 00:34:31,812 --> 00:34:34,582 you know, weapons, why would they be flying them 1075 00:34:34,615 --> 00:34:36,043 in a way that would endanger our own pilots? 1076 00:34:36,043 --> 00:34:37,919 in a way that would endanger our own pilots? 1077 00:34:37,952 --> 00:34:39,821 If they were secret 1078 00:34:39,854 --> 00:34:42,043 Soviet weapons, why would they be flying them 1079 00:34:42,043 --> 00:34:42,757 Soviet weapons, why would they be flying them 1080 00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:46,661 in a way that would possibly collide with our aircraft 1081 00:34:46,694 --> 00:34:48,043 and provide evidence that they exist? 1082 00:34:48,043 --> 00:34:49,663 and provide evidence that they exist? 1083 00:34:51,165 --> 00:34:52,333 It doesn't make any sense. 1084 00:34:52,366 --> 00:34:54,043 ♪ pulsing synthesizer music ♪ 1085 00:34:54,043 --> 00:34:54,536 ♪ pulsing synthesizer music ♪ 1086 00:34:54,569 --> 00:34:56,638 ♪ 1087 00:34:56,671 --> 00:34:59,107 [Carrion] I believe that the release 1088 00:34:59,140 --> 00:35:00,043 of that 2017 article on the AATIP program-- 1089 00:35:00,043 --> 00:35:01,643 of that 2017 article on the AATIP program-- 1090 00:35:01,676 --> 00:35:05,013 that was a purposeful release, 1091 00:35:05,046 --> 00:35:06,043 just like Roswell. 1092 00:35:06,043 --> 00:35:07,916 just like Roswell. 1093 00:35:07,949 --> 00:35:10,518 What AATIP has done, 1094 00:35:10,551 --> 00:35:12,043 what Elizondo has done, 1095 00:35:12,043 --> 00:35:12,787 what Elizondo has done, 1096 00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:14,589 what the Navy has done is they're putting 1097 00:35:14,622 --> 00:35:16,824 an official stamp of reality on it. 1098 00:35:16,857 --> 00:35:18,043 As far as Elizondo is concerned... 1099 00:35:18,043 --> 00:35:18,959 As far as Elizondo is concerned... 1100 00:35:21,195 --> 00:35:22,764 I'm always worried 1101 00:35:22,797 --> 00:35:24,043 about anyone who has one foot 1102 00:35:24,043 --> 00:35:25,700 about anyone who has one foot 1103 00:35:25,733 --> 00:35:28,369 in the world of government or intelligence. 1104 00:35:28,402 --> 00:35:30,043 [Blumenthal] We checked his records. 1105 00:35:30,043 --> 00:35:30,939 [Blumenthal] We checked his records. 1106 00:35:30,972 --> 00:35:32,874 We saw his citations 1107 00:35:32,907 --> 00:35:34,609 for meritorious service. 1108 00:35:34,642 --> 00:35:36,043 You know, all that stuff. You know, official-- 1109 00:35:36,043 --> 00:35:36,877 You know, all that stuff. You know, official-- 1110 00:35:38,913 --> 00:35:40,681 Yes. 1111 00:35:41,782 --> 00:35:42,043 [Greenewald] So I started looking into 1112 00:35:42,043 --> 00:35:44,052 [Greenewald] So I started looking into 1113 00:35:44,085 --> 00:35:45,253 Mr. Elizondo's background. 1114 00:35:45,286 --> 00:35:47,655 We know for a fact 1115 00:35:47,688 --> 00:35:48,043 by his resignation letter that he was the director 1116 00:35:48,043 --> 00:35:50,858 by his resignation letter that he was the director 1117 00:35:50,891 --> 00:35:53,728 of the National Programs Special Management staff 1118 00:35:53,761 --> 00:35:54,043 that operated in the office 1119 00:35:54,043 --> 00:35:55,730 that operated in the office 1120 00:35:55,763 --> 00:35:58,333 of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. 1121 00:35:58,366 --> 00:35:59,667 Now why is this important? 1122 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:00,043 Well, that placed him in an office 1123 00:36:00,043 --> 00:36:02,604 Well, that placed him in an office 1124 00:36:02,637 --> 00:36:05,340 that essentially he operated like a ghost. 1125 00:36:05,373 --> 00:36:06,043 I was only able 1126 00:36:06,043 --> 00:36:07,342 I was only able 1127 00:36:07,375 --> 00:36:10,445 to dig up, through the Freedom of Information Act, 1128 00:36:10,478 --> 00:36:12,043 one reference to that office. 1129 00:36:12,043 --> 00:36:13,047 one reference to that office. 1130 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,017 And that was in a court transcript 1131 00:36:16,050 --> 00:36:18,043 from the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. 1132 00:36:18,043 --> 00:36:19,920 from the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. 1133 00:36:20,855 --> 00:36:24,043 So essentially he knew about a lot of the highly-classified 1134 00:36:24,043 --> 00:36:24,525 So essentially he knew about a lot of the highly-classified 1135 00:36:24,558 --> 00:36:26,728 and secretive elements going on 1136 00:36:26,761 --> 00:36:28,696 within the Department of Defense. 1137 00:36:29,897 --> 00:36:30,043 In the beginning of 2018, all of a sudden, 1138 00:36:30,043 --> 00:36:31,899 In the beginning of 2018, all of a sudden, 1139 00:36:31,932 --> 00:36:34,736 the Pentagon started issuing these contradictory statements, 1140 00:36:34,769 --> 00:36:36,043 stating first, "Well, no, 1141 00:36:36,043 --> 00:36:36,771 stating first, "Well, no, 1142 00:36:36,804 --> 00:36:38,606 we really weren't dealing with UFOs." 1143 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:40,441 And then they said that they dealt 1144 00:36:40,474 --> 00:36:42,043 with anonymous aircraft or-or something anomalous in the sky. 1145 00:36:42,043 --> 00:36:44,045 with anonymous aircraft or-or something anomalous in the sky. 1146 00:36:44,078 --> 00:36:47,382 And then all of a sudden, they took it all away, 1147 00:36:47,415 --> 00:36:48,043 and they said, "Nope, sorry. We changed our mind," 1148 00:36:48,043 --> 00:36:49,484 and they said, "Nope, sorry. We changed our mind," 1149 00:36:49,517 --> 00:36:51,052 stating that AATIP, at this point, 1150 00:36:51,085 --> 00:36:52,920 didn't have anything to do with UFOs, 1151 00:36:52,953 --> 00:36:54,043 and that Mr. Elizondo didn't head the program. 1152 00:36:54,043 --> 00:36:55,756 and that Mr. Elizondo didn't head the program. 1153 00:36:56,757 --> 00:36:59,127 [Knapp] They can't keep their story straight. 1154 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,043 If you had asked them two weeks 1155 00:37:00,043 --> 00:37:00,928 If you had asked them two weeks 1156 00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:02,597 before The New York Times story came out, hey, 1157 00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:04,432 is there a program called AATIP that studied UFOs? 1158 00:37:04,465 --> 00:37:05,933 They'd say no. 1159 00:37:05,966 --> 00:37:06,043 And then when it did come out, "Oh, yeah, 1160 00:37:06,043 --> 00:37:07,669 And then when it did come out, "Oh, yeah, 1161 00:37:07,702 --> 00:37:09,437 okay, we had a program. 1162 00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:11,506 Yeah, it might have looked at UFOs." 1163 00:37:11,539 --> 00:37:12,043 Then a couple months later, "No, it didn't. 1164 00:37:12,043 --> 00:37:13,041 Then a couple months later, "No, it didn't. 1165 00:37:13,074 --> 00:37:14,442 It didn't look at UFOs. 1166 00:37:14,475 --> 00:37:16,878 Lu Elizondo had nothing to do with it." 1167 00:37:16,911 --> 00:37:18,043 Now they're in the middle of trying to figure out 1168 00:37:18,043 --> 00:37:18,780 Now they're in the middle of trying to figure out 1169 00:37:18,813 --> 00:37:21,382 what they're gonna say next. 1170 00:37:25,686 --> 00:37:27,789 When you look at the chronology of how 1171 00:37:27,822 --> 00:37:29,757 Mr. Elizondo got those videos cleared 1172 00:37:29,790 --> 00:37:30,043 for U.S. government use only, six weeks later, 1173 00:37:30,043 --> 00:37:32,593 for U.S. government use only, six weeks later, 1174 00:37:32,626 --> 00:37:34,528 all of a sudden he resigns. 1175 00:37:37,131 --> 00:37:40,568 Then there's a meeting that, that takes that information, 1176 00:37:40,601 --> 00:37:42,043 it's given to The New York Times. 1177 00:37:42,043 --> 00:37:42,603 it's given to The New York Times. 1178 00:37:44,505 --> 00:37:46,607 Then within weeks, Mr. Elizondo 1179 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,043 is on stage in the spotlight 1180 00:37:48,043 --> 00:37:50,345 is on stage in the spotlight 1181 00:37:50,378 --> 00:37:52,613 on this new corporate venture. 1182 00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:58,119 October 2017, To the Stars Academy announced 1183 00:37:58,152 --> 00:38:00,043 that they were going to figure out 1184 00:38:00,043 --> 00:38:00,154 that they were going to figure out 1185 00:38:00,187 --> 00:38:02,523 whatever these UFOs were. 1186 00:38:03,657 --> 00:38:05,593 Hello, I'm Tom DeLonge, 1187 00:38:05,626 --> 00:38:06,043 and thanks for joining us live today. 1188 00:38:06,043 --> 00:38:07,128 and thanks for joining us live today. 1189 00:38:07,161 --> 00:38:08,730 ♪ pulsing music ♪ 1190 00:38:08,763 --> 00:38:12,043 You had an all-star list of former CIA operatives 1191 00:38:12,043 --> 00:38:12,133 You had an all-star list of former CIA operatives 1192 00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,602 and people tied to the intelligence community. 1193 00:38:14,635 --> 00:38:16,003 But also the corporate world. 1194 00:38:17,171 --> 00:38:18,043 Jim Semivan, Christopher Mellon. 1195 00:38:18,043 --> 00:38:19,907 Jim Semivan, Christopher Mellon. 1196 00:38:19,940 --> 00:38:22,577 And Doctor Hal Puthoff was at the... 1197 00:38:22,610 --> 00:38:24,043 at the capstone of it all. 1198 00:38:24,043 --> 00:38:24,112 at the capstone of it all. 1199 00:38:24,145 --> 00:38:26,314 ♪ 1200 00:38:26,347 --> 00:38:29,183 [Puthoff] Starting as a kid, I've always been interested in 1201 00:38:29,216 --> 00:38:30,043 the actual forefront of physics. 1202 00:38:30,043 --> 00:38:31,719 the actual forefront of physics. 1203 00:38:31,752 --> 00:38:34,789 And so I've been always involved in 1204 00:38:34,822 --> 00:38:36,043 looking at ideas that were 1205 00:38:36,043 --> 00:38:36,657 looking at ideas that were 1206 00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:37,992 right at the edge. 1207 00:38:38,025 --> 00:38:40,294 The CIA descended on my doorstep. 1208 00:38:40,327 --> 00:38:42,043 They said, "Oh, have we been looking for you." 1209 00:38:42,043 --> 00:38:43,597 They said, "Oh, have we been looking for you." 1210 00:38:44,565 --> 00:38:48,043 Every time there's a problem somebody wants to solve, 1211 00:38:48,043 --> 00:38:48,503 Every time there's a problem somebody wants to solve, 1212 00:38:48,536 --> 00:38:50,138 they want a physicist 1213 00:38:50,171 --> 00:38:52,473 who's had clearances they know they can trust. 1214 00:38:52,506 --> 00:38:54,043 And they know the area's so weird 1215 00:38:54,043 --> 00:38:54,308 And they know the area's so weird 1216 00:38:54,341 --> 00:38:55,710 that no other physicists are going to agree 1217 00:38:55,743 --> 00:38:57,245 to do anything about it. 1218 00:38:57,278 --> 00:38:58,746 Who you gonna call? 1219 00:39:00,815 --> 00:39:02,216 [Carrion] There's a history 1220 00:39:02,249 --> 00:39:03,985 of questionable characters in this field. 1221 00:39:04,018 --> 00:39:06,043 What I call the usual suspects. 1222 00:39:06,043 --> 00:39:06,420 What I call the usual suspects. 1223 00:39:09,256 --> 00:39:12,043 All of these characters that maintain government ties. 1224 00:39:12,043 --> 00:39:13,027 All of these characters that maintain government ties. 1225 00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:15,630 They do active government research. 1226 00:39:15,663 --> 00:39:18,043 And they have an interest in UFOs. 1227 00:39:18,043 --> 00:39:18,166 And they have an interest in UFOs. 1228 00:39:18,199 --> 00:39:20,234 Why? 1229 00:39:21,035 --> 00:39:23,871 [DeLonge] Now, if there's a subject 1230 00:39:23,904 --> 00:39:24,043 that could potentially change the world 1231 00:39:24,043 --> 00:39:26,574 that could potentially change the world 1232 00:39:26,607 --> 00:39:28,876 how would one approach it? 1233 00:39:28,909 --> 00:39:30,043 Especially if the subject contained 1234 00:39:30,043 --> 00:39:31,212 Especially if the subject contained 1235 00:39:31,245 --> 00:39:33,181 Earth-changing technology, 1236 00:39:33,214 --> 00:39:36,043 the need to understand a coming tidal wave of information, 1237 00:39:36,043 --> 00:39:36,784 the need to understand a coming tidal wave of information, 1238 00:39:36,817 --> 00:39:39,287 and what my partners and I call, again, 1239 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,922 "the story of the millennia." 1240 00:39:40,955 --> 00:39:42,043 ♪ quick, thrilling music ♪ 1241 00:39:42,043 --> 00:39:44,425 ♪ quick, thrilling music ♪ 1242 00:39:44,458 --> 00:39:45,893 [Greenewald] Tom DeLonge had made 1243 00:39:45,926 --> 00:39:47,862 a name for himself in the field of UFOs. 1244 00:39:47,895 --> 00:39:48,043 Obviously, he needs no introduction 1245 00:39:48,043 --> 00:39:49,564 Obviously, he needs no introduction 1246 00:39:49,597 --> 00:39:50,898 as being a rock star. 1247 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,043 [DeLonge] When I signed my first major record deal, 1248 00:39:54,043 --> 00:39:55,369 [DeLonge] When I signed my first major record deal, 1249 00:39:55,402 --> 00:39:58,105 I took my first check, bought a desktop computer 1250 00:39:58,138 --> 00:39:59,740 so I could research the possibility 1251 00:39:59,773 --> 00:40:00,043 of intelligent life in the universe. 1252 00:40:00,043 --> 00:40:02,610 of intelligent life in the universe. 1253 00:40:02,643 --> 00:40:04,278 [Carrion] I don't know Tom DeLonge. 1254 00:40:04,311 --> 00:40:06,043 I don't want to speak badly of him, but honestly... 1255 00:40:06,043 --> 00:40:07,949 I don't want to speak badly of him, but honestly... 1256 00:40:07,982 --> 00:40:10,685 To me he seems to be a useful idiot 1257 00:40:10,718 --> 00:40:12,043 in all of this, and I hate to use that term, 1258 00:40:12,043 --> 00:40:12,920 in all of this, and I hate to use that term, 1259 00:40:12,953 --> 00:40:14,622 but that's sort of like the... 1260 00:40:14,655 --> 00:40:18,043 the term for somebody who's being used unwittingly. 1261 00:40:18,043 --> 00:40:18,125 the term for somebody who's being used unwittingly. 1262 00:40:19,326 --> 00:40:22,029 [DeLonge] I sometimes call To the Stars 1263 00:40:22,062 --> 00:40:24,043 science fiction Disney but for adults. 1264 00:40:24,043 --> 00:40:24,532 science fiction Disney but for adults. 1265 00:40:24,565 --> 00:40:26,267 Tom DeLonge is an entertainer. 1266 00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:28,169 A... rock star 1267 00:40:28,202 --> 00:40:29,670 with a lot of resources. 1268 00:40:29,703 --> 00:40:30,043 He is putting attention on this very interesting field 1269 00:40:30,043 --> 00:40:32,874 He is putting attention on this very interesting field 1270 00:40:32,907 --> 00:40:34,709 with a lot of celebrity behind it. 1271 00:40:34,742 --> 00:40:36,043 [crowd cheering] 1272 00:40:36,043 --> 00:40:37,644 [crowd cheering] 1273 00:40:38,879 --> 00:40:41,516 You have Tom DeLonge's entrepreneurial background. 1274 00:40:41,549 --> 00:40:42,043 Very successful background. 1275 00:40:42,043 --> 00:40:42,984 Very successful background. 1276 00:40:43,017 --> 00:40:45,753 You have a corporation that is aiming 1277 00:40:45,786 --> 00:40:48,043 originally to raise $50 million dollars. 1278 00:40:48,043 --> 00:40:48,722 originally to raise $50 million dollars. 1279 00:40:49,857 --> 00:40:52,393 I think, and it's not popular to say, 1280 00:40:52,426 --> 00:40:54,043 but that money may be 1281 00:40:54,043 --> 00:40:54,262 but that money may be 1282 00:40:54,295 --> 00:40:57,764 a big motivating factor for these men to come together. 1283 00:41:00,467 --> 00:41:02,603 If that doesn't scream PR move-- 1284 00:41:02,636 --> 00:41:05,706 which is fine, but we have to frame it appropriately-- 1285 00:41:05,739 --> 00:41:06,043 that-- that's what they were orchestrating 1286 00:41:06,043 --> 00:41:08,809 that-- that's what they were orchestrating 1287 00:41:08,842 --> 00:41:10,344 The New York Times to do. 1288 00:41:10,377 --> 00:41:12,043 Not necessarily a piece on AATIP or UFOs, 1289 00:41:12,043 --> 00:41:13,114 Not necessarily a piece on AATIP or UFOs, 1290 00:41:13,147 --> 00:41:15,682 but rather putting the spotlight on an organization. 1291 00:41:17,518 --> 00:41:18,043 [Blumenthal] You always look and see, "Are you being played? 1292 00:41:18,043 --> 00:41:19,554 [Blumenthal] You always look and see, "Are you being played? 1293 00:41:19,587 --> 00:41:21,689 Are you being used for something?" 1294 00:41:21,722 --> 00:41:24,025 But first of all, we reported what was 1295 00:41:24,058 --> 00:41:26,093 absolutely true, that there was a secret program. 1296 00:41:26,126 --> 00:41:27,862 There was an unknown Pentagon program. 1297 00:41:27,895 --> 00:41:29,764 Tracked UFOs, produced videos. 1298 00:41:29,797 --> 00:41:30,043 That was all true. 1299 00:41:30,043 --> 00:41:31,933 That was all true. 1300 00:41:31,966 --> 00:41:34,669 We were very careful not to lend 1301 00:41:34,702 --> 00:41:36,043 ourselves to any promotional effort for 1302 00:41:36,043 --> 00:41:36,837 ourselves to any promotional effort for 1303 00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:39,039 To the Stars. 1304 00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:45,780 [Carrion] A lot of the folks that write these articles 1305 00:41:45,813 --> 00:41:47,582 or are investigating AATIP, 1306 00:41:47,615 --> 00:41:48,043 they are what I call 1307 00:41:48,043 --> 00:41:49,083 they are what I call 1308 00:41:49,116 --> 00:41:50,918 UFO perps. 1309 00:41:50,951 --> 00:41:53,154 They're perpetuators 1310 00:41:53,187 --> 00:41:54,043 of the UFO myth. 1311 00:41:54,043 --> 00:41:55,255 of the UFO myth. 1312 00:41:58,926 --> 00:42:00,043 I absolutely believe it was an op. 1313 00:42:00,043 --> 00:42:00,428 I absolutely believe it was an op. 1314 00:42:00,461 --> 00:42:04,097 I think AATIP w-was an op from day one. 1315 00:42:05,065 --> 00:42:06,043 From when it was first incepted. 1316 00:42:06,043 --> 00:42:06,567 From when it was first incepted. 1317 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,170 ♪ slow dramatic music ♪ 1318 00:42:09,203 --> 00:42:11,672 ♪ 1319 00:42:11,705 --> 00:42:12,043 [Elizondo] We were brought into the program to identify 1320 00:42:12,043 --> 00:42:14,041 [Elizondo] We were brought into the program to identify 1321 00:42:14,074 --> 00:42:15,776 some of these phenomena 1322 00:42:15,809 --> 00:42:18,012 and, basically, try to collect enough data 1323 00:42:18,045 --> 00:42:19,747 where we could make some positive analysis 1324 00:42:19,780 --> 00:42:21,983 and identify what these things were. 1325 00:42:22,016 --> 00:42:24,043 A lot of folks think that I'm sort of a turncoat 1326 00:42:24,043 --> 00:42:24,719 A lot of folks think that I'm sort of a turncoat 1327 00:42:24,752 --> 00:42:26,420 in the UFO field 1328 00:42:26,453 --> 00:42:29,490 because I've become what they consider a skeptic. 1329 00:42:29,523 --> 00:42:30,043 I'm not a skeptic. 1330 00:42:30,043 --> 00:42:31,659 I'm not a skeptic. 1331 00:42:31,692 --> 00:42:33,227 I-I'm not a debunker. 1332 00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:35,529 What I am is just, I'm a truth seeker. 1333 00:42:36,363 --> 00:42:38,298 I believe there's life in the universe. 1334 00:42:39,533 --> 00:42:42,043 Where I differ from a lot of the believers, 1335 00:42:42,043 --> 00:42:42,069 Where I differ from a lot of the believers, 1336 00:42:42,102 --> 00:42:44,639 is whether that life has come to Earth. 1337 00:42:44,672 --> 00:42:47,074 Is it possible? Yes. 1338 00:42:47,107 --> 00:42:48,043 Have we possibly been visited in the past? Yes. 1339 00:42:48,043 --> 00:42:50,945 Have we possibly been visited in the past? Yes. 1340 00:42:50,978 --> 00:42:53,514 Have we possibly been visited now? Yes. 1341 00:42:53,547 --> 00:42:54,043 Is it possible we could be visited in the future? 1342 00:42:54,043 --> 00:42:55,850 Is it possible we could be visited in the future? 1343 00:42:55,883 --> 00:42:57,818 Absolutely. 1344 00:42:57,851 --> 00:42:59,620 Cannot discount that. 1345 00:42:59,653 --> 00:43:00,043 The universe is too big. 1346 00:43:00,043 --> 00:43:01,388 The universe is too big. 1347 00:43:03,490 --> 00:43:06,043 But... it's just a belief. 1348 00:43:06,043 --> 00:43:06,260 But... it's just a belief. 1349 00:43:06,293 --> 00:43:07,662 Right? 1350 00:43:07,695 --> 00:43:10,197 Where's the proof? 1351 00:43:14,201 --> 00:43:16,170 [Knapp] Well, what do you call proof? 1352 00:43:16,203 --> 00:43:17,738 What's your idea of evidence? 1353 00:43:17,771 --> 00:43:18,043 What, what's evidence to you? 1354 00:43:18,043 --> 00:43:19,306 What, what's evidence to you? 1355 00:43:19,339 --> 00:43:21,642 Evidence is enough information to convince you 1356 00:43:21,675 --> 00:43:24,043 that something is true, or at least true to some degree. 1357 00:43:24,043 --> 00:43:24,612 that something is true, or at least true to some degree. 1358 00:43:24,645 --> 00:43:26,814 We have millions and millions and millions 1359 00:43:26,847 --> 00:43:28,549 of people who have seen these things. 1360 00:43:28,582 --> 00:43:30,043 We have thousands of events that are unexplained. 1361 00:43:30,043 --> 00:43:31,519 We have thousands of events that are unexplained. 1362 00:43:31,552 --> 00:43:33,821 Many of them, anyway. We have, uh, 1363 00:43:33,854 --> 00:43:36,043 radar and visual sightings. 1364 00:43:36,043 --> 00:43:36,123 radar and visual sightings. 1365 00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:38,993 Every time you have a UFO story, 1366 00:43:39,026 --> 00:43:40,361 it's either disinformation 1367 00:43:40,394 --> 00:43:41,996 or it's a secret military program. 1368 00:43:42,029 --> 00:43:42,043 Well, was the Pentagon doing this stuff 1369 00:43:42,043 --> 00:43:44,865 Well, was the Pentagon doing this stuff 1370 00:43:44,898 --> 00:43:46,300 250 years ago? 1371 00:43:46,333 --> 00:43:48,043 The craft that were seen back then, 1372 00:43:48,043 --> 00:43:48,803 The craft that were seen back then, 1373 00:43:48,836 --> 00:43:50,404 were they secret test planes? 1374 00:43:50,437 --> 00:43:53,340 Was that a disinformation campaign run by the CIA? 1375 00:43:54,174 --> 00:43:57,178 The fact is that these phenomena predates 1376 00:43:57,211 --> 00:43:59,313 the kinds of explanations you're talking about. 1377 00:43:59,346 --> 00:44:00,043 It represents something that we don't understand. 1378 00:44:00,043 --> 00:44:01,882 It represents something that we don't understand. 1379 00:44:01,915 --> 00:44:04,285 [reporter] Frank Banners' UFO remained 1380 00:44:04,318 --> 00:44:06,043 over his farm more than four hours. 1381 00:44:06,043 --> 00:44:06,153 over his farm more than four hours. 1382 00:44:06,186 --> 00:44:09,557 His children saw it, his in-laws saw it, 1383 00:44:09,590 --> 00:44:11,525 residents of the area saw it. 1384 00:44:11,558 --> 00:44:12,043 The police saw it. 1385 00:44:12,043 --> 00:44:13,060 The police saw it. 1386 00:44:13,093 --> 00:44:15,329 [man] It, uh, moved very rapidly, 1387 00:44:15,362 --> 00:44:17,832 at any speed or, rather, any direction. 1388 00:44:17,865 --> 00:44:18,043 It would go, why, it would change 1389 00:44:18,043 --> 00:44:19,800 It would go, why, it would change 1390 00:44:19,833 --> 00:44:21,235 and go to the right or the left, 1391 00:44:21,268 --> 00:44:24,043 and go crossways, um, without hesitating a bit. 1392 00:44:24,043 --> 00:44:24,371 and go crossways, um, without hesitating a bit. 1393 00:44:24,404 --> 00:44:27,007 [man] It's going over... See, over the mountain. 1394 00:44:31,245 --> 00:44:33,147 Whoa! 1395 00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:34,381 Shoot. 1396 00:44:34,414 --> 00:44:36,043 ♪ exciting, percussive music ♪ 1397 00:44:36,043 --> 00:44:36,217 ♪ exciting, percussive music ♪ 1398 00:44:36,250 --> 00:44:38,552 ♪ 1399 00:44:42,289 --> 00:44:44,592 [Knapp] Every culture, every continent, 1400 00:44:44,625 --> 00:44:47,194 every civilization of the world has reported this thing. 1401 00:44:47,227 --> 00:44:48,043 They use different terms for it, 1402 00:44:48,043 --> 00:44:48,729 They use different terms for it, 1403 00:44:48,762 --> 00:44:50,631 but it's been with us throughout human history. 1404 00:44:50,664 --> 00:44:53,567 ♪ 1405 00:44:57,171 --> 00:44:59,206 It's bigger than the CIA. 1406 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,043 We don't know what it is. 1407 00:45:00,043 --> 00:45:01,074 We don't know what it is. 1408 00:45:05,879 --> 00:45:06,043 [Dorsch] There is a separate, really interesting conversation, 1409 00:45:06,043 --> 00:45:08,549 [Dorsch] There is a separate, really interesting conversation, 1410 00:45:08,582 --> 00:45:10,618 like, the hierarchy of... 1411 00:45:10,651 --> 00:45:12,043 UFO belief. 1412 00:45:12,043 --> 00:45:12,553 UFO belief. 1413 00:45:12,586 --> 00:45:16,123 I think there are people who see things. 1414 00:45:17,658 --> 00:45:18,043 They've been told that if they see something 1415 00:45:18,043 --> 00:45:19,260 They've been told that if they see something 1416 00:45:19,293 --> 00:45:20,561 they should say something. 1417 00:45:20,594 --> 00:45:22,096 [man] There is no sound. 1418 00:45:22,129 --> 00:45:23,697 -It is... -[woman] Changing direction. 1419 00:45:23,730 --> 00:45:24,043 [man] It's changing directions. 1420 00:45:24,043 --> 00:45:25,099 [man] It's changing directions. 1421 00:45:25,132 --> 00:45:28,469 But how do we separate reputable witnesses 1422 00:45:28,502 --> 00:45:29,970 from crackpots? 1423 00:45:30,003 --> 00:45:30,043 It was hovering up here. 1424 00:45:30,043 --> 00:45:31,405 It was hovering up here. 1425 00:45:31,438 --> 00:45:33,574 Uh, just below the tops of the trees. 1426 00:45:33,607 --> 00:45:36,043 Well, I felt this numbing shock and blacked out. 1427 00:45:36,043 --> 00:45:36,710 Well, I felt this numbing shock and blacked out. 1428 00:45:36,743 --> 00:45:39,880 The guys in the truck said they saw this brilliant beam 1429 00:45:39,913 --> 00:45:41,315 come out of the light 1430 00:45:41,348 --> 00:45:42,043 and hit me in the head and the chest 1431 00:45:42,043 --> 00:45:43,517 and hit me in the head and the chest 1432 00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:46,987 and knock me flying through the air. 1433 00:45:47,020 --> 00:45:48,043 [Dorsch] I think that the trouble comes 1434 00:45:48,043 --> 00:45:49,323 [Dorsch] I think that the trouble comes 1435 00:45:49,356 --> 00:45:51,992 with the abduction stuff. 1436 00:45:52,025 --> 00:45:54,043 [man] I didn't see any neck. 1437 00:45:54,043 --> 00:45:54,361 [man] I didn't see any neck. 1438 00:45:54,394 --> 00:45:56,664 It looked like it just sit there on the body, 1439 00:45:56,697 --> 00:45:57,698 if you could called it a body. 1440 00:45:57,731 --> 00:45:59,133 And then just lifted me 1441 00:45:59,166 --> 00:46:00,043 off the ground, about... 1442 00:46:00,043 --> 00:46:00,668 off the ground, about... 1443 00:46:00,701 --> 00:46:04,738 about the height that... that it was, or they was. 1444 00:46:04,771 --> 00:46:06,043 And we went in... 1445 00:46:06,043 --> 00:46:07,274 And we went in... 1446 00:46:07,307 --> 00:46:10,077 it was, it carried me into the vehicle 1447 00:46:10,110 --> 00:46:12,043 or the craft or whatever you want to call it. 1448 00:46:12,043 --> 00:46:12,213 or the craft or whatever you want to call it. 1449 00:46:12,246 --> 00:46:14,748 Even some of the most ardent, 1450 00:46:14,781 --> 00:46:16,283 true-believer, 1451 00:46:16,316 --> 00:46:18,043 pro-UFO study scientists 1452 00:46:18,043 --> 00:46:18,619 pro-UFO study scientists 1453 00:46:18,652 --> 00:46:20,487 do not make that leap. 1454 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,923 [woman] And these strange creatures 1455 00:46:22,956 --> 00:46:24,043 just sort of floated out. 1456 00:46:24,043 --> 00:46:24,458 just sort of floated out. 1457 00:46:24,491 --> 00:46:27,528 ...and took them inside the spaceship. 1458 00:46:27,561 --> 00:46:30,043 And then they believe that they were, apparently, examined. 1459 00:46:30,043 --> 00:46:30,297 And then they believe that they were, apparently, examined. 1460 00:46:30,330 --> 00:46:32,967 Under some type of-- of eye or light. 1461 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,935 And then, the next thing he knew, 1462 00:46:34,968 --> 00:46:36,043 he was back outside again. 1463 00:46:36,043 --> 00:46:36,503 he was back outside again. 1464 00:46:36,536 --> 00:46:38,439 [Dorsch] A crackpot is somebody who believes 1465 00:46:38,472 --> 00:46:41,675 fervently without any basis in scientific fact. 1466 00:46:41,708 --> 00:46:42,043 They might be extraterrestrial, but they're not kidnapping us. 1467 00:46:42,043 --> 00:46:43,844 They might be extraterrestrial, but they're not kidnapping us. 1468 00:46:43,877 --> 00:46:47,014 This kidnapping story is ridiculous, right? 1469 00:46:47,047 --> 00:46:48,043 I find it difficult to accept everything that was said. 1470 00:46:48,043 --> 00:46:50,718 I find it difficult to accept everything that was said. 1471 00:46:50,751 --> 00:46:53,654 However, I believe that they were sincere. 1472 00:46:53,687 --> 00:46:54,043 I do not believe that either of them, 1473 00:46:54,043 --> 00:46:55,823 I do not believe that either of them, 1474 00:46:55,856 --> 00:46:57,191 at that time, was putting on. 1475 00:46:57,224 --> 00:46:58,592 But you know what I'm saying. 1476 00:46:58,625 --> 00:47:00,043 There are intelligent people who say, "Hey, 1477 00:47:00,043 --> 00:47:00,427 There are intelligent people who say, "Hey, 1478 00:47:00,460 --> 00:47:02,363 we were out here, they, uh... 1479 00:47:02,396 --> 00:47:05,499 We saw them, we talked," and yet there's not one shred 1480 00:47:05,532 --> 00:47:06,043 of what they call hard evidence 1481 00:47:06,043 --> 00:47:07,534 of what they call hard evidence 1482 00:47:07,567 --> 00:47:09,637 to support it. 1483 00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:11,305 [Dorsch] What makes the UFO so interesting, 1484 00:47:11,338 --> 00:47:12,043 is that it is such a scientific object. 1485 00:47:12,043 --> 00:47:13,007 is that it is such a scientific object. 1486 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,876 And yet how do we articulate 1487 00:47:15,909 --> 00:47:17,645 and quantify and figure out 1488 00:47:17,678 --> 00:47:18,043 legitimacy and authority, credibility? 1489 00:47:18,043 --> 00:47:20,413 legitimacy and authority, credibility? 1490 00:47:21,581 --> 00:47:24,043 [Blumenthal] That's what makes John Mack so fascinating. 1491 00:47:24,043 --> 00:47:24,317 [Blumenthal] That's what makes John Mack so fascinating. 1492 00:47:25,419 --> 00:47:28,055 The fact that a noted, world-renowned 1493 00:47:28,088 --> 00:47:30,043 psychiatrist at Harvard would be so taken 1494 00:47:30,043 --> 00:47:31,058 psychiatrist at Harvard would be so taken 1495 00:47:31,091 --> 00:47:32,393 by this idea of alien abduction. 1496 00:47:32,426 --> 00:47:34,828 In the past four years, I've worked now 1497 00:47:34,861 --> 00:47:36,043 with approximately 90 people who've had these experiences. 1498 00:47:36,043 --> 00:47:37,765 with approximately 90 people who've had these experiences. 1499 00:47:37,798 --> 00:47:39,767 It then went to being floated out of my room, 1500 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,043 going up into a spaceship, lying on a table... 1501 00:47:42,043 --> 00:47:42,436 going up into a spaceship, lying on a table... 1502 00:47:42,469 --> 00:47:44,705 I was aware that they were putting an instrument 1503 00:47:44,738 --> 00:47:46,106 in my neck. 1504 00:47:46,139 --> 00:47:47,775 Poking and prodding. 1505 00:47:47,808 --> 00:47:48,043 Taking... skin samples. 1506 00:47:48,043 --> 00:47:51,178 Taking... skin samples. 1507 00:47:51,211 --> 00:47:53,380 [Blumenthal] I was very taken with this story 1508 00:47:53,413 --> 00:47:54,043 because I was intrigued myself. 1509 00:47:54,043 --> 00:47:55,182 because I was intrigued myself. 1510 00:47:55,215 --> 00:47:56,750 [Mack] The only thing I knew 1511 00:47:56,783 --> 00:47:58,719 that behaves like that is real experience. 1512 00:47:58,752 --> 00:48:00,043 This is not the way dreams behave, 1513 00:48:00,043 --> 00:48:00,454 This is not the way dreams behave, 1514 00:48:00,487 --> 00:48:02,990 this is not the way mental illness behaves, 1515 00:48:03,023 --> 00:48:04,425 it's not the way fantasy behaves. 1516 00:48:04,458 --> 00:48:06,043 [Blumenthal] John Mack actually believed 1517 00:48:06,043 --> 00:48:06,560 [Blumenthal] John Mack actually believed 1518 00:48:06,593 --> 00:48:09,396 that these people were telling the truth. 1519 00:48:11,965 --> 00:48:12,043 ♪ dramatic music ♪ 1520 00:48:12,043 --> 00:48:13,767 ♪ dramatic music ♪